View Full Version : Tucson PMP Gran-Prix
Any questions or comments about this up coming race post them hear.
/forum/uploaded/El-Gato/lion-2.JPG
David Gronlund #57,
"I'm like a flag on that thing!!"
Paul400EX
08/15/02, 6:18 AM
i'm sooooooooo there
2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a WR426
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Look in profile for the mods i've got on my quad.
You will love that land rush start. It is nothing more than a plowed over field.
100 bikes or quads (seperately) lined up side by side, live engine, and the green. You race down to a 5 bike width hair pin left hand corner. It's a trip unless you're in the back chocking on dust.
I got the hole shot two years ago to have my friend and team mate Dayton Raper send me to the dirt in the first turn. He kinda used me as a berm.
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David Gronlund #57,
"I'm like a flag on that thing!!"
hey el-gato, how is the parker race in terms of difficulty?
Well if you mean the Parker-200 it is very difficult.
But you probably mean the Parker Gran Prix scheduled for December. You descide; the laps are about 2-3 miles long, and kinda winds around a silty dusty plowed over perfectly flat field. They add some jumps without landings, and a 100 yard man made whoop section. The fun part is the land rush start.
Quads guys love it because it is a lot of hard packed flat tracking. I don't like it because it is a lot of hard packed flat tracking.
You won't see me there. It is very easy and spectator friendly though.
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David Gronlund #57,
"I'm like a flag on that thing!!"
Edited by - el-gato on 08/15/2002 07:54:30 AM
One thing I learned last year (after it was to late) about racing a quad at the Parker GP. Go wide in the turns and keep it pinned! The inside line is a rutted out mess. I also think lining up way out to the right on the start gives you an advantage coming in to the first left hand corner. Everyone (quads) cuts to the inside of the corner leaving the out side open. Several quads cruised around the mess that built up on the inside of that first turn.
Jeff Henson
CT310 TRX250R
Whiplash #150
400Excitement
08/16/02, 7:09 AM
Is there a posted website for the GP race?
Gato - can you elaborate on "jumps without landings"? I just don't want to die.
Would you consider this a good race for 1st timers
Mellow Yellow
2001 - 400 EX
Gato - can you elaborate on "jumps without landings"? I just don't want to die.
Don't worry, they're safe. Kinda like oversized speed bumps, of course they change it up every year so maybe this year it will be cool. If I'm hurting for an adrenaline rush I may show.
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David Gronlund #57
I just want to be as fast as you think you are.
I noticed the Parker GP wasn't listed on the race schedule in the SON newspaper. I heard some RUMORS that Whiplash may not be racing in Parker anymore. Supposedly someone with Whiplash really ticked off a Parker city council member. I imagine the Parker Best In The Desert races in January (bikes and quads 250 miler) and February (cars and trucks 450 miler) fit in to this somehow too.
Jeff Henson
CT310 TRX250R
Whiplash #150
HHHHUUUUMMM
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According to the Whiplash office, the Parker GP has been canceled. They are looking into some other venue. They told me, possibly Tucson.
Robert
TRX330R
Whiplash #273
Tucson...yep thats what I figured! Probably be a GP at the currently closed Pima Motosports area. Slyder- I was worried they might not replace it. I want to see you work for those second place points! <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Jeff Henson
CT310 TRX250R
Whiplash #150
Are you kidding, I haven't given up on 1st yet! Besides, I thought you were going to Dumont that weekend?
Robert
TRX330R
Whiplash #273
A new race!!!
I love new races. New races mean we haven't been running on the same old whooped out silt beds for the last 25 years. We get to whoop them out ourselves.
I usually do pretty good on unchartered teritories. I hope they don't allow pre-running either. Kinda evens the field that way.
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**WARNING** What you just read may not be suitable for all mentalities
Fistfull
09/03/02, 1:18 PM
A new race!!!
I love new races. New races mean we haven't been running on the same old whooped out silt beds for the last 25 years. We get to whoop them out ourselves.
I usually do pretty good on unchartered teritories. I hope they don't allow pre-running either. Kinda evens the field that way.
/forum/uploaded/El-Gato/sylangry.JPG
**WARNING** What you just read may not be suitable for all mentalities
The cat awakes, streches, flexes his claws, and pounces ...... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
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2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I've been doing Whiplash races for 7 years now, and I'm tired of the same old whooped out silt beds.
Give me something new!
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**WARNING** What you just read may not be suitable for all mentalities
I disagree about no pre-running making the field even. I think that offering a pre-run of the course is the biggest safety aspect that can be provided. If someone chooses not to take part in the pre-run, then that is their own fault, and they will just have to live with the consequences. Having the oppurtunity to inspect the course prior to racing on it is, in my mind, a very important safety factor.
Robert
TRX330R
Whiplash #273
I agree with you totaly about the safety issue. That is why we have pre runs, for the riders safety. I just seem to do better when we all hit the course with out being able to see it first.
BUT if they would actually mark the course like all other orginizations do we wouldn't have to worry about it because all the dangers would have danger signs on them and in a far enough distance away from the obstacle that you could actually have time to slow down. I think they are trying to save money on down arrows.
I am a little down on Whiplash right now about course markings because of Rapers crash. They marked the danger AFTER he was air evacted. I guess it doesn't pay to be first.
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It wasn't marked when I went passed it, the only reason I didn't eat sh!t there was because me & Fist saw them helping Raper get off the ground and I remembered where that was. Otherwise I would've been right with Dayton on the whirlie-bird
I am a little down on Whiplash right now about course markings because of Rapers crash. They marked the danger AFTER he was air evacted. I guess it doesn't pay to be first.
/forum/uploaded/big_kaw_huna/kx1.gif (http://members.cox.net/wpfontenot/)
"Let up for a second and thats where you'll finish"
I am a little down on Whiplash right now about course markings because of Rapers crash. They marked the danger AFTER he was air evacted. I guess it doesn't pay to be first.
Hmmm, a fellow I know who races WORCS despises Whiplash. He says they don't know how to run a dirtbike race and that that many racers have been seriously injured (and 1 or 2 killed, I think) because of stunts like not marking dangers properly.
It sounds like he knew what he was talking about. Something to keep in mind for the next Whiplash event...
Mark
XR400R
Fistfull
09/04/02, 4:32 PM
I am a little down on Whiplash right now about course markings because of Rapers crash. They marked the danger AFTER he was air evacted. I guess it doesn't pay to be first.
Hmmm, a fellow I know who races WORCS despises Whiplash. He says they don't know how to run a dirtbike race and that that many racers have been seriously injured (and 1 or 2 killed, I think) because of stunts like not marking dangers properly.
It sounds like he knew what he was talking about. Something to keep in mind for the next Whiplash event...
Mark
XR400R
What, this has turned into a bash Whiplash thread?
If the Dayton had ridden the PRERACE ride in a sensible manner (don't go telling me he wasn't going full tilt in the predawn light) and then returned to the rash truck, located Jay and raised hell about the rock outcropping at mile 5 not being marked, do you think Jay would have listened to him?
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2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Whiplash does a good job of marking there courses if you ask me, and definetly better than SCORE! If your gonna bash Whiplash for bad course markings, then you better bash SCORE and BITD to. They don't mark everything. That nasty G-out, at the BITD Tonopah 300, that sent Frank Zeiter over the bars to a broken femur wasn't marked.
Jeff Henson
CT310 TRX250R
Whiplash #150
It's a whole lot easier to properly mark a 20 mile loop than the 500 or 1000 mile loops that SCORE has. I've only ever done 1 BITD race and that was the Laughlin Hare Scramblers, and it was marked very well. I can not speak for the rest of their courses.
I've been racing Whiplash for 7 years and I know of four people that have died in their races. One of them was a very close freind and teammate. I didn't mean to get down on Whiplash, but when my best friend is laying in the hospital lucky to be alive I tend to lash out a little. And yes Raper was hauling @$$ on that pre-run. Probably faster than he needed to be going, but that's no excuse. Mark the course or don't send riders on it. I was told that they never even sent anybody out to remark the course after the trucks and buggies finished their race, and you know how they can tear a track up. The track is completely different after they get done with it.
Don't get me wrong, I love Whiplash races. They're cheaper, close, convienent, and a whole lot of fun. It's just their major down fall is poor markings. People die all the time racing, but 4 people in 5 years is a little ridiculous for one small orginization. One of the guys actually died in Snowflake 2 years ago, he was a senior Pro rider. I can't remember his name
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Edited by - El-Gato on 09/05/2002 06:24:46 AM
Phil Brooks
09/05/02, 7:19 AM
I like the idea of the preruns for that safty reason. To tell you the truth I do not think that the area where Dayton went down was such a bad spot. I beleive it was just one of those unfortunate accidents. I know he is a pro but things happen. Every lap I would slow down and tried to figure out what he hit. Unless something was removed after his crash, it looked fine to me. Other areas looked much worst to me, but like I say my speed was way down when I approched this area. Back in the days of the ADRA there was no preruns,and if caught even play riding near a course you for sure disquified. I was starting out the desert scene back in the mid 80's with the ADRA, After many years of being out of the saddle. I can't tell you how many times I would mis-judge the terrian and would fly into a tree,rock , or catus. Many times markers would be knocked over by other riders or the wind. I do not think we should bash the organizers, but we should help with input. I sure do not have all the ideas, but as a group we should be able to take control. What do you think? Maybe have a pre-run with guide to controled the speeds. Maybe bring along extra markers to place in the area over looked by cousre marhalls? Maybe have a second run after that to go ahead and pick up the speeds. I do not know the ansewer and no mater what, someone will disagree. We all have loved ones that worry about us. What are your thoughts? I would like to see more input on this topic to make things safer. I crashed hard at Presscott, the wife warned me one wore trip to the ER and no more racing for me. Hell this is my first year back since the ADRA days and I plan to race for many more years. Thank you, Phil Brooks # 777
I hit it. It was a stone ledge that stuck up about 6" - 8" and was white, mixed in with the white rocks. Hard to see, but if you went down the left line - to avoid the stone hump in the middle line - then you stood a very good chance of hitting this "ledge". It kicked the back of my bike out so hard it also put it over my head and wanted to send me into the fence.
I like the idea of the preruns for that safty reason. To tell you the truth I do not think that the area where Dayton went down was such a bad spot. I beleive it was just one of those unfortunate accidents. I know he is a pro but things happen. Every lap I would slow down and tried to figure out what he hit. Unless something was removed after his crash, it looked fine to me. Other areas looked much worst to me, but like I say my speed was way down when I approched this area. Back in the days of the ADRA there was no preruns,and if caught even play riding near a course you for sure disquified. I was starting out the desert scene back in the mid 80's with the ADRA, After many years of being out of the saddle. I can't tell you how many times I would mis-judge the terrian and would fly into a tree,rock , or catus. Many times markers would be knocked over by other riders or the wind. I do not think we should bash the organizers, but we should help with input. I sure do not have all the ideas, but as a group we should be able to take control. What do you think? Maybe have a pre-run with guide to controled the speeds. Maybe bring along extra markers to place in the area over looked by cousre marhalls? Maybe have a second run after that to go ahead and pick up the speeds. I do not know the ansewer and no mater what, someone will disagree. We all have loved ones that worry about us. What are your thoughts? I would like to see more input on this topic to make things safer. I crashed hard at Presscott, the wife warned me one wore trip to the ER and no more racing for me. Hell this is my first year back since the ADRA days and I plan to race for many more years. Thank you, Phil Brooks # 777
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"Let up for a second and thats where you'll finish"
What, this has turned into a bash Whiplash thread?
If your gonna bash Whiplash for bad course markings, then you better bash SCORE and BITD to.
I wasn't trying to turn this into a Whiplash bashing thread. I simply stated what someone stated to me and that it seemed in line with what El-Gato was saying and that you should keep this in mind for the other Whiplash races (i.e., don't trust the markers).
Mark
XR400R
Phil,
I agree with a lot of what you say. I shouldn't bash the orginizers, but I don't think it should be up to the riders to make sure the course is safe. Sure, input from the riders on dangerous areas after a pre-run is a must. That is what a pre-run is for, to see what's out there and report to the marshals if anything is really bad. I do understand also that marking a course on a utility quad or jeep at 10 mph is a hell of a lot different than a bike or quad doing 100 mph. I don't know how many times I've seen a down arrow with not even enough time to let off the gas before I hit the danger.
We used to do guided pre-runs. Usually it was Larry Beshaw or Zack McKinley leading the lap, and it was very strictly enforced that if you passed the leader you were DQ'ed. The problem with that was that everybody would catch up to the leader and make a huge dusty traffic jam. The guys in the back were getting hurt in the dust. We actually lost the Mammoth Gran Prix race for that very reason. There were so many people on the pre-run packed together the dust cloud was HUGE. The race ran through the middle of town and dusted everyone out. After that race the town council came under attack and would not let us hold a race there anymore. It was the pre-run not the races that did that race in.
Like I said earlier I was venting about Rapers crash and it wasn't fair to take it out on Whiplash, but I do think they could do a lot more towards safety. A lot of our team riders (Ben Cycle Works riders) are wanting to start helping mark the courses better after or during pre-runs. I guess it's better to fix the problem than complain about it.
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Phil Brooks
09/05/02, 10:40 AM
To all, I talked with Ben when we went to look at Daytons bike after the accident. He was going to compete in this race, but after the news of the accident he told me this hurt him inside so bad that he could not compete. This ripped his heart out. You are right about the course masrhsals should be more aware of hinden dangers. I do not want to point any fingers ether, but the sweepers should notice these things. They take many laps around before any riders are allowed out. I feel bad because I sweep for the mini & peewee tour. I do not prerun with the sweepers on the big bike course because I do not want anyone to feel that I have a unfair advantage. As you can see by my times I do not think anyone would object to me doing so. I guess I will take it into my own hands and go ahead (with premisson from Larry Beshaw)and prerun the course on my sweep bike. I sweep with a Sreet legal 91 DR250. If anyone in the 700 class disagrees please let me or the Whiplash staff know and I will not. My thought is this will give me a chance to give my imput to course marshals if I see any thing of concern. This is some thing I can do starting with the upcomming Wickenburg race. Please give give feed back on this topic. Phil Brooks #777
Fistfull
09/05/02, 10:58 AM
If anyone in the 700 class disagrees please let me or the Whiplash staff know and I will not. My thought is this will give me a chance to give my imput to course marshals if I see any thing of concern. This is some thing I can do starting with the upcomming Wickenburg race. Please give give feed back on this topic. Phil Brooks #777
As a member of the 700 class, I have no objections.
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2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Phil Brooks
09/05/02, 11:06 AM
Thank you Fistfull, I just want everyone to come home on sunday night. Phil Brooks #777
Paul400EX
10/12/02, 8:55 PM
when is this race again? i talked my parents into letting me race and i need to start sometime soon so i can be ready to start the season next year.
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
Paul400EX
10/12/02, 8:57 PM
oh wait a sec... isn't this the race they cancelled and moved to tucson?
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
imported_n/a
10/12/02, 9:34 PM
The following is partial fact, partial opinion. Please treat it as such:
Whiplash's main focus is the cars/trucks/buggies. The bikes and quads are secondary. Don't believe me? Look at the entry fees. Look at who runs first. A car course gets set up, then the cars run, then, with little or no additional trouble, it's a bike course meaning bike entry fees meaning more profit with just one more day's work!!
Also, the costs are too high for the racing buck you get. Go run a national Hare and Hound (but do yourself a favor and don't go to the Lucerne races)and you'll see. The H+H are put on by clubs. They are national caliber and they don't run trucks/buggies. The entry is less because they cover their costs and aren't worried about a profit. The race is the focus.
It is a business for Jay and everyone runs the same course. A rider crash is 99% the rider fault. If you take out the component of using your head and make racing foolproof, then monkeys may as well race. All they gotta do is twist the grip and keep 'er pointed straight.
But Whiplash is the only game in town. Too bad for the riders.
Phil Brooks
10/13/02, 1:35 AM
The fees may be a little high at $75.00, but 15 years ago the ADRA fees were $65.00 Not much of an increase compared to todays inflation. Jay does promise fees to be lowered by $15.
00 in the Tucson G.P. & future races due to some lower insurance rates he has found. True it a business for Jay & it is all we have. I'll support it as long as I can still race. Phil Brooks #777
I pay well over a buck a mile to go run BITD or SCORE. The Baja Mex 300 was $425 for Sportsman classes to go 282 miles. We all run the same course the cars and trucks do there to. Personally I think BITD is the best desert racing organization out there. SCORE is very obvious about giving the car and trucks preferential treatment.
Whiplash fees average out to much less than a buck a mile. If the race is less than 75 miles, the course is probably so tough and technical that nobody cares to go an extra lap anyways. Yeah it's a buisness, but I don't see anyone stepping up to start a club that puts on non-profit desert races.
It looks as if the Cars and trucks will only get 6-7 races in this year with Whiplash while the bikes and quads will run 11 events. I think they mark the courses pretty well, although Wickenburg was probably a poor marking job.
Yes there have been atleast 3 deaths in the last 6-7 years. One crashed in a marked part of the course. One got off the course due to the dust and hit a tree stump. And then I'm not sure about the most recent. Dust is just part of desert racing. If racing wasn't dangerous then we wouldn't have to sign a waiver at registration.
Jeff Henson
CT310 TRX250R
Whiplash #150
BITD #Q70
I've never "raced" a Whiplash course and don't ever plan on doing so. I did do the Wickenburg pre-run and was glad I didn't pay the fee to race that course. Just not my kind of fun. I'll take a D37 race anyday over that, yes, even Lucerne Valley. I do wish they had a club system over here in AZ. I feel the courses would be marked better, entry fees lower and overall better courses.
I'm by no means a "racer", but do go back to SoCal and hit a few dez races and have a blast there. I prefer the trail riding here much better though. Just not a fan of Whiplash and BITD type racing. Oh well, just my .02
KX500
Heat Miser
Hey Ramski, have you ever thought of starting a District 37 type organization here. I also came from SoCal desert racing and while I've thought about it I have no idea how to go about it, or where to get the information from.
quote:Originally posted by Ramski
I've never "raced" a Whiplash course and don't ever plan on doing so. I did do the Wickenburg pre-run and was glad I didn't pay the fee to race that course. Just not my kind of fun. I'll take a D37 race anyday over that, yes, even Lucerne Valley. I do wish they had a club system over here in AZ. I feel the courses would be marked better, entry fees lower and overall better courses.
I'm by no means a "racer", but do go back to SoCal and hit a few dez races and have a blast there. I prefer the trail riding here much better though. Just not a fan of Whiplash and BITD type racing. Oh well, just my .02
KX500
Heat Miser
"Let up for a second and that's where you'll finish"
Well, if I was really serious about racing I would definately try starting a "race" club here in AZ. What district does AZ fall under anyway? I only do about four or five races a year. I'm having too much fun trial riding. :)
KX500
Heat Miser
I'll check into that one, I would like to model something along the lines of the H&H series. I'd bet good money that for a decent entry fee and some Hare & Hounds style racing that didn't take you around the country, people would come and race and enjoy themselves.
quote:Originally posted by Ramski
Well, if I was really serious about racing I would definately try starting a "race" club here in AZ. What district does AZ fall under anyway? I only do about four or five races a year. I'm having too much fun trial riding. :)
KX500
Heat Miser
"Let up for a second and that's where you'll finish"
Paul400EX
10/13/02, 7:08 PM
you know i'd be there, just ask BK why i wanna race so d@mn much ;)
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
I'm not too sure you want to race that quad in this thing if I figure out what the h#ll I'm doing ;)
quote:Originally posted by Paul400EX
you know i'd be there, just ask BK why i wanna race so d@mn much ;)
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
"Let up for a second and that's where you'll finish"
Paul400EX
10/13/02, 7:28 PM
oh come now, just don't tell anyone else about it until i run 3 or 4 races in your little series so i can guarantee myself a championship :D
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
I'll keep that in mind ;)
quote:Originally posted by Paul400EX
oh come now, just don't tell anyone else about it until i run 3 or 4 races in your little series so i can guarantee myself a championship :D
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
"Let up for a second and that's where you'll finish"
Paul400EX
10/13/02, 8:47 PM
oh i see how it is, this is a bike only series [:P]
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2002 Yellow 400EX
Looking to get a KX500
Fistfull
10/14/02, 8:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by Ramski
I've never "raced" a Whiplash course and don't ever plan on doing so. I did do the Wickenburg pre-run and was glad I didn't pay the fee to race that course. Just not my kind of fun. I'll take a D37 race anyday over that, yes, even Lucerne Valley. I do wish they had a club system over here in AZ. I feel the courses would be marked better, entry fees lower and overall better courses.
I'm by no means a "racer", but do go back to SoCal and hit a few dez races and have a blast there. I prefer the trail riding here much better though. Just not a fan of Whiplash and BITD type racing. Oh well, just my .02
KX500
Heat Miser
Well I have only raced for the last year, so I don't have much experience with different sanctioning bodies or race courses. I don't get what the whining is about. I loved the Whickenburg course, it was tough, it was a challenge, it wasn't easy, if it had been easy I would have been disapointed.
My question is, what kind of courses does D37 run on?? What makes them so much better? Just want to know.
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2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
The District 37 races are all put on by clubs. Race fees are usually about $35. They are bike/quad courses only. I've only done the Hare & Hounds, and they have fast sections that sometimes use dry lakes and also have nasty tough up and down hills. It's difficult to decide how to gear the bike, because of the variance in terrain. If you get a chance, watch "On Any Sunday" again. The desert racing part is exactly the same in there as today.
KX500
Heat Miser
Now thats what I'm talking about, all I need to do is figure out how to get this going.
quote:Originally posted by Ramski
The District 37 races are all put on by clubs. Race fees are usually about $35. They are bike/quad courses only. I've only done the Hare & Hounds, and they have fast sections that sometimes use dry lakes and also have nasty tough up and down hills. It's difficult to decide how to gear the bike, because of the variance in terrain. If you get a chance, watch "On Any Sunday" again. The desert racing part is exactly the same in there as today.
KX500
Heat Miser
"Let up for a second and that's where you'll finish"
Lizrdlipz
10/14/02, 9:12 PM
I have raced Whiplash for about 3 years. (But have taken this year off) They are the only game in town and do a pretty good job for the areas they have made available to us. I enjoy the people and the racing is pretty good at times. It is what it is... I used to race D-37 and really enjoyed their racing. The courses are verry cool. Imagine taking the terrain from which the Whiplash races are on and make them a single track... ie. Parker Goat Trail, Parts of Cinders, Lake Pleasant area... D-37 lays out the courses with bikes in mind. Whiplash has more than just the bikes to please. If you've ever taken part in trials & tribulations involved in sanctioning & laying out courses (with the scrutinizing eye of the BLM) then you'll begin to feel the pain. I've heard many people complain about not having regular single track racing in this state but no one has the time to research and develop the sport. Until then we are all limited to our pocket books and the distances to the GNCC-Nationals, D-37 & BITD type racing. Hope to see you all on the trail or at the races.
#631 Steve Feld
imported_n/a
10/15/02, 4:47 AM
Looks like this area is ripe for a real H and H. Maybe things are already in the works.
Never met a CR500 I didn't like.
quote:Originally posted by Ramski
Well, if I was really serious about racing I would definately try starting a "race" club here in AZ. What district does AZ fall under anyway? I only do about four or five races a year. I'm having
I've always wanted to do exactly that, but I'm not much of a business type person. I always though AZ needs a good technical series. We have enough stuff here that we could have an entire race series with nothing more than single track, and tight technical 2 track like that in Prescott and MM 11.5.
The only problem with me is if I was to orginize something like that I wouldn't be able to race it. I wouldn't want to be called a cheater. If Green_Bugger_Huna wanted to try something out, I would be happy to help out behind the scenes. I would stay off the course until race day.
David, #57
I think the most exciting thing about D37 H&Hs is the starts. Nothing like it anywhere. It's da Bomb!
KX500
Heat Miser
Fistfull
10/24/02, 8:51 AM
Just a heads up, practice for this race is Friday and the races are Saturday [:0][:0][:0][:0]
http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Phil Brooks
10/24/02, 11:21 AM
Rick, I was'nt sure if you were going to make it to this one. Hope to see you there! Phil # 777
Fistfull
10/24/02, 2:12 PM
I sent the money in a couple of weeks ago. Now I need to get Friday off, I have one unscheduled vacation day left. I might as well use it, I'm not having any luck finding anyone to pit for the point-to-point in December.
http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Phil Brooks
10/24/02, 3:14 PM
Rick, I beleive the Parks & Ramos gang can take care of our pit needs, we just need to figure a way to get the wifes down to the Oasis safly. Phil Brooks # 777
Fistfull
10/29/02, 7:42 PM
It's roll call time, who is in for this weekend [?][?][?][?][?]
It'time to quit shuckin and jivin, get the filters cleaned, the tires aired up and lets go race!!!!!
http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Phil Brooks
10/29/02, 10:52 PM
Rick, I should be there by 12:00 noon on Fri, if not eariler. Phil # 777
Note on Whiplash: I have been racing with Jay for years, have lots of friends that race past and current and I have raced a few BITD (Vegas to Reno for one). Jay does a good job of putting on races in a very unfriendly environment ie; Indian reservations private property owners and the cursed BLM. There needs to be a "next step" in Whiplash. Safety is a big issue. I was there at Parker for Mark O. and saw the chopper land an HOUR after notification at snowflake. Accidents happen, we all expect this. I think Jay has made a good committment to safety with the ambulance buggy although I nearly stuffed it into the rear of the thing while it was searching for a rider. Navaho Air is a great thing too. The next step could be better marking and maintenance of markers. Better marking means a warning marker when there is something nasty ahead and then a marker on the nasty thing. (like BITD) Many times I have come up on whiplash double down arrows to find nothing scary at all. When BITD says there is danger ahead they are not kidding. Also, the pits are totally unaccepable. There should always be vehicle access from the back of the pits. You get there at 0:00 dark thirty and you either have to drive on the course or stay until the quads finish at dark. All it would take to fix this is a flag man and Jay (actually forces near Jay)will not address this HUGE inconvenience.
I will continue to race with Jay but I cannot say that this series generates the passion a D37 or H&H does.
Slyder and I plan to be there early afternoon on Friday for some practice. We are camping at the track. Look for ATV #'s 150 and 273.
Jeff Henson
CT310 TRX250R
Whiplash #150
BITD #Q70
What he said [^]
Robert
TRX330R
Whiplash #273
Phil Brooks
10/30/02, 11:32 PM
Ragdoll, one good thing now is that the chopper shows up at the start of the races & stays till the events are over. Just hope it's not needed:) Phil # 777
quote:Originally posted by Phil Brooks
Ragdoll, one good thing now is that the chopper shows up at the start of the races & stays till the events are over. Just hope it's not needed:) Phil # 777
They have been doing that on and off for a couple years. It all depends on the availability of the Air-Evac crew at race time.
As far as the Race in Tucson this weekend. I have heard sense there is a lot of people that can't make the 2:00-5:00 friday practice that they are going to have some kind of practice on saturday for the bikes and quads. They don't know when they will be able to fit us in with the busy race schedule, so they are urging people to show up early and keep your eyes and ears open.
I won't be getting in until late friday night, but I plan on being at the track bright and early saturday morn. I will be with Todd Johnson and Dayton Raper in a white box van. I don't know were we'll be though.
As a side note I have never been this unprepared for a race, but I'll be there. That's all that counts.
David Gronlund
Fistfull
10/31/02, 7:53 AM
quote:Originally posted by El-Gato
I won't be getting in until late friday night, but I plan on being at the track bright and early saturday morn. I will be with Todd Johnson and Dayton Raper in a white box van. I don't know were we'll be though.
David Gronlund
Is Dayton racing or supporting? I thought it took longer than this for dents in heads to heal ;)
http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
quote:
Is Dayton racing or supporting? I thought it took longer than this for dents in heads to heal ;)
Oh it does take longer than this, but don't tell him that, he won't listen.
He was originally planning on going for the sole purpose of promoting his riding school, but he has been working on his bike to get it ready just to have it there he says. You know, to make it look better for his school. He says he isn't racing, but I have known him for years and he'll race. I'll bet on it, especially if he can start next to me.
I hope he doesn't race. The docs told him 6 months to a year. He is his own person, and a stuborn one at that.
David Gronlund
Phil Brooks
10/31/02, 2:05 PM
It's great to hear Dayton's doing well, And yes It's hard for a racer to sit still and listen to a Dr's orders. I am sure he will do just fine. David, You and Dayton just give us old timers a break & don't put too many laps on us! See ya there and best of luck to you both. Phil Brooks # 777:D
Well another race on the books. It wasn't as great as everyone hoped, but I had fun. A couple fast Local MX Pro's showed up and put a whooping on us in the Pro class.
O/A finishers
1. Eric Anderson
2. Brian Brunning
3. Danny Bonham (sp)(1st Senior Pro)
4. John Conyer
5. El-Gato
6. Todd Johnson (2nd Senior Pro)
Dayton broke a chain on a Alan Viollete loner YZF426, Kyle Beshaw wrecked and broke his bike (exhaust).
The rest is kind of fuzzy to me. There was a lot of Pro's (Open, Seniors and Masters), 16 or 18 all together. I had a terrible start. I spun out on the green flag and was sitting back in last place with John Conyer, and we had to come all the way from the back and start passing in the dust. I probably rode as hard as I ever have. I HATE off camber high speed square edge blue groove tracks, but that was exactly what the track was. A lot of extremely fast flat tracking and power sliding, stuff I never practice. There where a few really cool jumps that were spectator friendly. The finish line jump was sending us about 80-100 feet out to a flat hard pack landing, but oh-well, I hit it WFO every time.
The Handicap race on Sunday was pretty cool also. They took our Sarturday lap times and reversed the starting order and started us as far back as we finished ahead the day before. The problem was that we only ran 45 minutes on the sunday race and an hour on saturday. Kinda defeats the math, but it was a fun race. I believe we (Pros) were about a half a lap from catching the leaders at the end. I don't think we made it all the way to the front, but we sure passed a lot of people. We (Pro's and experts) had a TEN MINUTE handicap. The first group almost did 3 laps of the 2.5 mile course before we finally got to start. I had more fun this race than the official race on Saturday. Me, Dayton and John Conyer just latched on to each other and started freight training to the front. I don't think we were ever more than 10 seconds apart from the three of us. 15 more minutes, and we would of won for sure. Oh-well, it was fun just the same. I think Jay did it on porpuse to let some one else get the O/A for a change. It's all good.
Dayton had a spill on his practice lap. He was just cruising along checking out the track and hit this high speed fly away jump and wrecked on the landing for what seemed like no reason. Come to find out it WAS for no reason. Todd got to looking at his bike (Rocket Science KX 250/500 Hi-Bred) and there was a big nasty black mark on the exhaust right behind the front wheel. We strapped it down to the trailer to find that the front tire was hitting the pipe with about 6" of suspension travel left on the forks. When he landed and bottom the forks it was like slamming on the front brake. We think that is why he crashed in Snowflake. He hit that rock ledge, bottomed the forks out and well you all know the rest.
I didn't hear to many bad things about the weekend except for our senior Pro friend John Albro (#77) who broke his collar bone on the fun race, and Dayton finding a design flaw in his new bike the hard way. John (Pit Boy in my Baja Pics) was scheduled to race in the Baja-1000 in two weeks. He was pretty heart broken.
I only saw a few RAers out there. JKCmotox was there watching with son and Dad (I still owe you a mouth piece for the camelback I borrowed from you). I met Lizardlipz who I have talked to before, but didn't know who he was.
I was promoting RA as much as possible. I may have got some new members from the Tucson area, we'll see. My good old friend Blake from DirtBikeTV.com was out filming the race for his web site, and he did a couple interviews with us and encouraged me talk about RA. He wants to come out and ride with us with his helmet cam. That should be fun. He was the one that filmed the Wickenburg race a year ago that I had posted at one time.
If anybody that has added stories and finish results please post.
David Gronlund
Phil Brooks
11/04/02, 8:00 AM
I got my first win in the 700 class (40+). It looked to like every class had to protest due to poor score keeping. They put me as 6th out of 10 riders. I pulled the hole-shot and never looked back. I put some riders down 3 laps, some 2 laps, and a few 1 lap. there were only 3 of us on the led lap (of the 700 class.) The guy who finished 2nd #706 a local guy, was 50 seconds behind me. 3rd went to Jim Chapmen # 708, who is the one who has won 5 events this year. I was pretty excided to knowingly win my first bike race ever, only to see them put me at 6th. I smoked the 700 class and every one in my class knew it. I had to raise a big stink with score keeping, In further reveiw they found that they were wrong and did give me the win. This was not the way I wanted to get my fist win. Our race was over by 4:30pm, and did not get scoring straight till 8:30pm. The MCM class was still argueing about scores when I left. Jeff Henson, ATV racer # 150 was also still there waiting for results to be posted. The ATV race was over before the truck race, at least an hour before the bike race started. (I hope you were'nt out there all night Jeff) All in all I thought it was a fun race even though they cut out the 5 mile desert loop. Whiplash just has to figure a way to get scoring together. Their were some pretty hot heads out there upset by this poor scoring issue, some are ready to bail on Whiplash. Some of these guys such as Mike Parks are running for the championship, and do not know if the points are going to be correct. Any way, i'll see you at the ATR event at MM 11.5, then off to the season final race in Mexico. Phil # 777
CONGRATS Phil!!!!!! That's awesome.
What happened to Fistfull. I was looking for him, but I never found him. I know he went up on friday. I hope he didn't get hurt practicing.
As far as the bad scoring goes, their super computer went down mid-race so they had to try to figure it all out by hand. What a ****ing mess that turned out to be. I commend them on their hard work though, all those races (200-300 racers + 12-15 laps each) had to be scored at once with a calculator and a pencil. WEW-WEEE, I'm glad I wasn't in the middle of that.
BTW, I edited the names on my last post, and added a side note.
David Gronlund
imported_n/a
11/04/02, 8:25 AM
Nice job on the finishes, gentlemen.
I hate when I find out that equipment has caused problems with riding, especially something like the front brake/pipe combo. Hope all the bugs get worked outta the scooter.
Never met a CR500 I didn't like.
Phil Brooks
11/04/02, 8:48 AM
El Gato, how did they figure time handicaps for the sunday race if the computers went down on saturday? I was wondering if they did get actual times. I believe that I passed all but 2 riders in the 600 class as well, and if so I would have been 3rd overall in the 40+ experts & should receive more points. As for fistful, he was with me at practice but I think he just was'nt feeling good about this race. You'll have to talk to him to see whats up. Phil # 777
Phil,
The handicap race had nothing to do with the series. It was fun only. No points for racing it. The rest of us are also wondering how the heck he figured our handicaps out. He said he pretty much took an educated guess. As I see it he did pretty good, but he cut the race 15 minutes short. With the full hour, it may of been closer. He should of taken off 2-3 average lap times off the total handicap for the shorter race. Oh-well, it was all for fun anyways.
BTW, Half of our entree ($20.00 total) for that race went into the racers fund and the other half ($10.00) went into the winners purse. About $300 in each jar.
For those of you who don't know, the Racers Fund was set up to help racers who have been injured racing and are having a hard time paying medical costs and bills. All the money from pre-runs and poker runs goes directly into this fund. It is a very good thing for us. I was very excited when Whiplash started this a couple years ago. It shows that they really care about the riders. The money is taken in and given out by someone other than Whiplash. A conflict of enterest thing maybe.
David Gronlund
Fistfull
11/04/02, 9:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by El-Gato
CONGRATS Phil!!!!!! That's awesome.
What happened to Fistfull. I was looking for him, but I never found him. I know he went up on friday. I hope he didn't get hurt practicing.
As far as the bad scoring goes, their super computer went down mid-race so they had to try to figure it all out by hand. What a ****ing mess that turned out to be. I commend them on their hard work though, all those races (200-300 racers + 12-15 laps each) had to be scored at once with a calculator and a pencil. WEW-WEEE, I'm glad I wasn't in the middle of that.
BTW, I edited the names on my last post, and added a side note.
David Gronlund
I went down for the practice session on Friday, after one lap of the "desert" section, I loaded up and came home. I had visions of becoming the cholla michlein man :D a wall ornament on the side of the wash or center punching a mesquite in the dust. I'm racing for the fun of it, I didn't see where there was any fun to be had at that race.
After hearing about the scoring fiasco, I am doubly glad I bailed.
On the other hand, BK, WR400, a few others and I had an excellant day exploring some single track trails out by four peaks on Sunday :D
http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
El Gato
11/04/02, 12:21 PM
Well Rick, they took that whole Cholla infected silt bed out of the race. When I did my couple practice laps in the morning the track was way to heavily watered and showed a close resemblance to the Black Water-100. I was pretty upset. The track was like wet ice with the wet hard pack corners. I decided to stick around and check it out later on in the day to see if it changed. We pleaded with Jay, the Sweep riders, the water truck driver, the tech guys, god, the milk man, the pope, and who ever else would listen to not put any more water down. Fortunately enough people came forth with concerns, and they left the water truck alone before the bike races. It wouldn't run anyways because I had already cut all the plug wires in half and crushed the distributor cap with a rock.
It turned out to be a descent race. You should of stuck around. You let Phil get away with one.
David Gronlund
Fistfull
11/04/02, 1:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by El-Gato
It turned out to be a descent race. You should of stuck around. You let Phil get away with one.
David Gronlund
Prob was ok but ............ well let's not go there.
I like the hare and hound type courses and from here on, that's what I'm sticking to.
Cides if I had stuck around, Phil would have just spanked me, he rides that XR400 HARD. :D:D:D
http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
quote:Originally posted by Fistfull
I like the hare and hound type courses and from here on, that's what I'm sticking to.
MRAN rodetrip next year??
quote:...Cides if I had stuck around, Phil would have just spanked me, he rides that XR400 HARD. :D:D:D
TRUE THAT!!!!
David Gronlund
jkcmotox
11/04/02, 2:41 PM
Sounds like you guys had fun. Makes me think that you guys were skilled as children keeping yourselves entertained, as I didn't see anything in particular that looked like it would be fun to ride a bike on (I may be being too harsh....there was this one cool looking jump....) Kinda' looked like an overgrown "'01 Holbrook GP". The whole thing made me realize the sad state of affairs that the AZ racing scene is currently in.
On a brighter note..........I ventured over and took a look at the MX track. It looked good and I do have to say that it is probably the nicest MX facility in AZ. Kind of nice that it is 10 minutes south of my Mom and Dad's house to boot! For future reference, the powerline just south of the facility leads to some really great singletrack that goes south to Sauhrita (sp?) that is worth driving 2 hours for!
Glad the RA bunch came back no worse for the wear.
Jkc
#98
"This looks like a job for me, MOTOrious B.I.G.,.......Y to the Z."
So John,
You know those trails down there. Lets get it on!
I have also heard that is a cool track. Kyle Beshaw actually rode it on saturday before he got caught and kicked off, and he said it was excellent. They (Whiplash) took over that whole park, and are starting a race series there next weekend. Should be interesting.
BTW, you are right. AZers are desperate for any type of adrenaline. I still can't believe I had fun on that horrible track. How did we look off the big table? Got pictures?
David Gronlund
Phil Brooks
11/04/02, 3:29 PM
El Gato, yah I knew the sunday race was for fun. I was just wondering how they were going tp score us for the series race without times? I would have liked to hung around for the fun-run on sunday, but we arrived sun-up on friday morning after working thursday night (grave yard shift) I/we had been up since 3:00pm on thusrsday afternoon and did not get to sleep till 11:00pm on friday night. 32+ hours with no sleep had the wife was wanting to get out of there. She was also pissed about having to wait for the scoring to get straighten out. I did not want to end up in the dog house so we headed back to Phx.,after my fight with the girls in scoring. Phil # 777
jkcmotox
11/04/02, 3:34 PM
El Gato,
Tucson has some great riding, I am only familiar with the stuff close to Rita Ranch. I go visit my parents and always take a bike (killer Mtn biking as well) Your parents are in southern AZ too, right?
As far the table top was concerned......looked like a pretty rough landing. On the other hand, the "Tatum" 10 car looked good on it!
As far as pics, I spent my day with my son and my dad; most of my time was spent saying things like:
"Staley, put that stick down"
or
"Don't you throw that rock, Staley"
or even
"You better not throw that rock "Staley Solon Chlarson"
and
"1.............2........................yeah, that's what I thought".
and atleast two or 14 times,
"dad....Dad.........DAaaaaaaaD! (My dad kept wandering off)
and (only once)
"Dad, most of these guy's don't even know what a '73 Elsinore is much less care that yours had lay-down shocks and a down pipe". (He cornered some poor unsuspecting 600 class rider and started telling them about how HE used to race too).
So, no........I don't have any pics. But I do have a new memory about three generations of Chlarsons being at a race........and no one got hauled off in the ambulance, DNF'd, got a pinch flat, grenaded a bottom end or ran into the water truck.
Jkc
#98
"This looks like a job for me, MOTOrious B.I.G.,.......Y to the Z."
Has anyone besides me complained to Jay that the Whiplash awards banquet is the same day as Supercross! He told me I was the first one to even mention this. This just stinks!
Ride ON!!!
Shawnee,
Thanks for bringing that up. I didn't even realize they were on the same weekend. I am not going to qualify for the points, but I was thinking of going to the banquet just for support of my team mates. Knowing what I know now...screw 'em, I'm going to the Supercross!
David Gronlund
Paul400EX
11/05/02, 7:36 PM
good idea Dave, when do the tix for the Supercross go on sale?
"Get in line son, before I kick you so hard you'll be wearing your @ss as a hat."
2002 Yellow 400EX
Soon to have a Trinity Stage IV Exhaust System
Looking to get a XR400
Lizrdlipz
11/05/02, 10:32 PM
Dave,
It was good talking to you at the race. Thanks for the sticker... E-Mail me if you're really interested in doing some extremely cool single track. I'll get Richards and some others together...
Steve
LIZRDLIPZ@aol.com
Phil Brooks
11/05/02, 10:49 PM
Oh, another RA member we forgot to mention, Steve, I believe you placed 2nd in 40+ expert if I'm correct. I may also take you up on a lift from the Oasis RV park to Sonita if you think we can arange it. I still need to get final plan together. You can E=Mail me at PBBROOKS18@YAHOO.COM or in box on this site. Thx Steve. Phil # 777
quote:Originally posted by Paul400EX
good idea Dave, when do the tix for the Supercross go on sale?
They have been on sale for a few months now.
Lizrdlipz,
Extremely cool single track is what I live for! That would be a blast to go ride down south with all you local guys. The next few weekends are already accounted for, but we'll do it sooner or later.
David Gronlund
El Gato
11/07/02, 12:29 PM
Here are the official results from the Whiplash site. Their super puter putered out so there isn't any lap times. It's too bad because my laps were progressively getting faster every lap. It would of been nice to actually see them, oh-well.
http://www.whiplashracing.com/results_points/bike/2002/pmp.htm
David Gronlund
Lizrdlipz
11/13/02, 12:35 PM
Phil,
We will be staying at Playa Bonita. We should have some pit support. I am at the mercy of the "Richards crew" to trailer to the start in Sonoyta but will let you know if I'll be able to help you get there. Write me at "Lizrdlipz@aol.com" for further conversation. I'll give you my home phone number there.