Club anyone... [Archive] - RidingArizona.com

neWRiver

10/24/02, 12:06 PM

There's already an AMA District 31 club running offroad technical races.
http://www.arizonatrailriders.org/
They could sure use more members, though. This club has a pretty long heritage and represents the best thing going in Arizona (AMA District 31) for the type of activities you are talking about.

It takes an enormous number of people working very hard to create a "recognized" AMA district organization. Not to mention that such a club is controlled in a lot of ways by the AMA itself. Do you currently support AMA? If you enter any of ATR's AMA sanctioned races, you'll need to sign up with the AMA.

Also, as you have noted, guys that really just want to race aren't much help in carrying out all of the official duties and functions needed.

If you really want to see more of a "District 37" type activity in Arizona, support ATR. They are the best shot we have at that kind of large organization around here (and a great bunch of offroad riders, besides). :D

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

Phil Brooks

10/24/02, 12:09 PM

I think it sounds great. But if we let all prerun and have open practice, we as organizers could also race and not be called cheaters. BK, I'm interested on imfo that you received from AMA. Phil Brooks # 777

Phil Brooks

10/24/02, 12:12 PM

Looks like Newriver ansewered my question. Phil # 777

PBR

10/24/02, 12:54 PM

Sounds good to me, I never realized ATR ran a Hare & Hound type of race schedule. I'll have to take my AMA membership and go check it out.

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

neWRiver

10/24/02, 1:36 PM

quote:Originally posted by big_kaw_huna

Sounds good to me, I never realized ATR ran a Hare & Hound type of race schedule. I'll have to take my AMA membership and go check it out.

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

Well, actually ATR doesn't run a true race "schedule" at this point. They have focused most of their energy in the past on promoting a single event as part of the AMA National Enduro series each year. This year, the club is trying to expand its activites to include more races and to offer more of what local riders are interested in. The Cactus Classic Qualifier is an effort in this direction.

The bottom line is it takes lots of people and resources to pull these things off. As a non-profit organization it can be difficult to accomplish everything the club wants to do when resources and experience are limited. Like I said, it's gonna take more than what we have right now. I'm all for helping to build a big organization with an aggressive race schedule and even a district level competition series. Who else will help? :D

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

PBR

10/24/02, 4:16 PM

Where do I sign up?
quote:Originally posted by neWRiver

I'm all for helping to build a big organization with an aggressive race schedule and even a district level competition series. Who else will help? :D

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

neWRiver

10/24/02, 4:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by big_kaw_huna

Where do I sign up?

http://www.arizonatrailriders.org/AI_Membership_Info.htm

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

PBR

10/24/02, 7:04 PM

Thanks ;)
quote:Originally posted by neWRiver

quote:Originally posted by big_kaw_huna

Where do I sign up?

http://www.arizonatrailriders.org/AI_Membership_Info.htm

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

Fistfull

10/26/02, 2:21 AM

I don't want to piss anyone off and this is just my own personal opinion. If ATR were the answer I was looking for, I would have quit looking two years ago. ATR is primarily enduro oriented and with that focus has worked up to two events this year, I want to compete more often than that.
I was just checking out the MRAN web site http://www.go-desert.com/mran/mran1.html and I am ready to move to Nevada, they have almost a dozen local clubs putting on 18
events in 2002. The different clubs take turns hosting events, you might not get to race in the event your club is hosting but you get to race in all the other clubs events.
Just throwing an idea out there on the table. Anyone have any ideas on how to get something like this started????

quote:Originally posted by neWRiver

quote:Originally posted by big_kaw_huna

Sounds good to me, I never realized ATR ran a Hare & Hound type of race schedule. I'll have to take my AMA membership and go check it out.

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

Well, actually ATR doesn't run a true race "schedule" at this point. They have focused most of their energy in the past on promoting a single event as part of the AMA National Enduro series each year. This year, the club is trying to expand its activites to include more races and to offer more of what local riders are interested in. The Cactus Classic Qualifier is an effort in this direction.

The bottom line is it takes lots of people and resources to pull these things off. As a non-profit organization it can be difficult to accomplish everything the club wants to do when resources and experience are limited. Like I said, it's gonna take more than what we have right now. I'm all for helping to build a big organization with an aggressive race schedule and even a district level competition series. Who else will help? :D

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

neWRiver

10/26/02, 1:32 PM

quote:Originally posted by Fistfull

I don't want to piss anyone off and this is just my own personal opinion. If ATR were the answer I was looking for, I would have quit looking two years ago. ATR is primarily enduro oriented and with that focus has worked up to two events this year, I want to compete more often than that.
I was just checking out the MRAN web site http://www.go-desert.com/mran/mran1.html and I am ready to move to Nevada, they have almost a dozen local clubs putting on 18
events in 2002. The different clubs take turns hosting events, you might not get to race in the event your club is hosting but you get to race in all the other clubs events.
Just throwing an idea out there on the table. Anyone have any ideas on how to get something like this started????

No offense, Fistfull, and please understand that I admire and respect any efforts in this direction. The situation you describe sounds wonderful. But, the simple answers is this: Stop looking and start doing. If you know how to start a club than do that. If not, join one. Your only other choice (as you have noted) is to move to another district where all of this infrastructure work has already been done. You can't simply "look" for something that does not exist. ;) Creating any kind of club really boils down to reaching a lot of people that share your interests and doing a whole lot of work (read self sacrifice) to bring it together.

As far as ATR's orientation, you may not be aware that the club is actually very active in working with land agencies and government officials to promote OHV opportunities for everybody. I think you'd be surprised how much work is involved. Also, with any club, the "orientation" is based on the needs and wishes of it's members. ATR could put on more races if it were big enough and had enough motivated members that wanted to do that. :D

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

Fistfull

10/26/02, 2:31 PM

I was just throwing information out there.
I don't have a clue how to start or run a motorcycle club.
The only club I know of in Arizona is ATR, I'm NOT going to join them.
Sorry I ever brought it up.

quote:Originally posted by neWRiver
No offense, Fistfull, and please understand that I admire and respect any efforts in this direction. The situation you describe sounds wonderful. But, the simple answers is this: Stop looking and start doing. If you know how to start a club than do that. If not, join one. Your only other choice (as you have noted) is to move to another district where all of this infrastructure work has already been done. You can't simply "look" for something that does not exist. ;) Creating any kind of club really boils down to reaching a lot of people that share your interests and doing a whole lot of work (read self sacrifice) to bring it together.

As far as ATR's orientation, you may not be aware that the club is actually very active in working with land agencies and government officials to promote OHV opportunities for everybody. I think you'd be surprised how much work is involved. Also, with any club, the "orientation" is based on the needs and wishes of it's members. ATR could put on more races if it were big enough and had enough motivated members that wanted to do that. :D

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

BikeDestroyer

10/26/02, 4:11 PM

quote:Originally posted by Fistfull

I was just throwing information out there.
I don't have a clue how to start or run a motorcycle club.
The only club I know of in Arizona is ATR, I'm NOT going to join them.
Sorry I ever brought it up.

http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend :D

Just wondering what your beef is with ATR? I was an active member for several years and met some great people through this club. The members who founded the club (don't know the year) were very instrumental in developing a lot of the trail system you see and use today throughout Arizona. Maybe if they knew why some people were shying away from their club changes could be made. I am not saying changes will be made, but I know that it will definately be looked at and discussed.

El Gato

10/28/02, 7:17 AM

I guess I didn't realize that the ATR races were considered "AMA District Races". That's cool. I hope they can grow and get a few more races going for a series. I'm going to give the Enduro a try next month. I've got a potentional line on a cool race we could try to put together in the southern part of the state. I'll look more into it.

Maybe we could get some RA people together with some ATR people and pull something off.

I'll look more into it. All I do know is that Whiplash isn't welcome in that area of the state. Bad experiences.

Fistfull, I know where you are coming from. 250/300 pound BRP's don't like enduro type races. You are looking more for faster H&H races, but not quite WFO desert races.

Bikedestroyer, I thought you were done destroying bikes. Nice girls don't destroy bikes, or something like that. Thanks for your input though.

David Gronlund

BikeDestroyer

10/28/02, 7:42 AM

I am not trying to start a fight here, but I see the real problem with this whole club/race thing. All you guys who want more races aren't willing to sacrifice your time to join/develop a club to do so. All you want to do is race so your only option is an organization like Whiplash. For the record the people who put on club races end up being the same individuals time & time again...it gets old after a while with no appreciation for what they are doing for all the racers out there. Do you realize that it takes 8 to 9 months of planning & working to put on the Nat'l Enduro. I have been on both sides of the fence (racing/club member) and can tell you that a majority of the racers DO NOT appreciate or realize all the effort that goes into putting on a race, all you want is more races and aren't willing to give any of your time to help put those races on.
And YES ATR has been putting on AMA Nat'l Enduro's on for years.

PBR

10/28/02, 8:55 AM

I'm going to run this race also. I'm also going to join the ATR and see how I can help out. I want to race but I also understand it doesn't happen overnight and without support it doesn't happen at all. My concern though is if I can't run a race based on helping out the ATR by course marking, etc...
quote:Originally posted by El-Gato

I guess I didn't realize that the ATR races were considered "AMA District Races". That's cool. I hope they can grow and get a few more races going for a series. I'm going to give the Enduro a try next month. I've got a potentional line on a cool race we could try to put together in the southern part of the state. I'll look more into it.

Maybe we could get some RA people together with some ATR people and pull something off.

I'll look more into it. All I do know is that Whiplash isn't welcome in that area of the state. Bad experiences.

Fistfull, I know where you are coming from. 250/300 pound BRP's don't like enduro type races. You are looking more for faster H&H races, but not quite WFO desert races.

Bikedestroyer, I thought you were done destroying bikes. Nice girls don't destroy bikes, or something like that. Thanks for your input though.

David Gronlund

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

imported_n/a

10/28/02, 10:05 AM

It's just a guess but I'm pretty sure that, if you ask phxman or another person who is in the running of things with the Qualifier and ATR, there are pleny of things that can be done to help out with the planning and execution of the event that would also let you run the course and not be unethical by you knowing the course. You don't mark it, how can you know where it is? This is not to say that they don't need a lot of help on race day.

It does take a huge amount of effort and nobody gets paid for their time. But the advantage of joining an existing club is that they already have a lot of experience with putting on events and doing a H&H couldn't be too much of a stretch. Just the interest level of the club members would dictate that.

Never met a CR500 I didn't like.

BigDog

10/28/02, 10:09 AM

BKH, you brought up a very good point...how to juggle volunteering to work an event but also be able to ride the race. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be done to put on an event such as a race (national, region, or local) that does not involve being out on the course. Racers can not help out with course design, arrowing, time runs, etc because they can't "know" the course if they plan to race. Here's a few other ways that club members or other racers can help promote a race and still qualify to race it themselves:

Volunteer to manage any of the following: t-shirts, trophies, give-aways, advertising, flyer distribution to the shops. These all take time, but it's time prior to the event and it has nothing to do with the course layout. If you can write legibly, volunteer to help make signs. It's amazing the number of little things that have to get done.

In addition to arrowing the course, arrows have to be put up on the major roads leading to an event. That's something else someone could volunteer to do.

Volunteer to work registration. The majority of registration occurs on Saturday, the day before the event. For the November poker run/enduro qualifier, we're going to be twice as busy on Saturday because we'll have two different registration booths, one for the poker run and the other for the race. There's a lot going on in the registration area so we always need help and it's a long day so it's nice to have people to rotate in and out. In addition to registering for the race, people are needed to sell AMA memberships (required for AMA races), sell rider race numbers, sell t-shirts, etc. Sunday registration is generally not an option for racers but they could work on Saturday and leave Sunday to those of us who don't plan to race.

Registration not really your deal? Well, you could always volunteer to work at the tech inspection area on Saturday.

And last but not least...people who race should try to get their friends and family who do not race out to the events to help. Clubs who put on races are not picky. We'll take help from any responsible person...you don't have to be a club member to sign up for work detail. :D

BikeDestoyer and neWRiver are right...it takes a tremendous amount of work to put on a race. Regionals are more work than local events and Nationals are even bigger. PhxMan starts working on some of these races at least 6 months before the event. The sad truth is, it's always the same group of people volunteering to do the work. Luckily, ATR has been blessed recently with some wonderful new members who are very enthusiastic and willing to help. The reality is, the less help you have, the fewer events you can hold. Club membership numbers don't really matter...it's the number of people who are actually willing to sacrifice personal time to benefit other riders.

And so it goes...

"I didn't crash...my bike just fell over."

'01 DRZ250

PBR

10/28/02, 10:10 AM

Good idea
quote:Originally posted by ArmPump

It's just a guess but I'm pretty sure that, if you ask phxman or another person who is in the running of things with the Qualifier and ATR, there are pleny of things that can be done to help out with the planning and execution of the event that would also let you run the course and not be unethical by you knowing the course. You don't mark it, how can you know where it is? This is not to say that they don't need a lot of help on race day.

True. I wonder if the interest would be enough to get a H&H together... [:p]
quote:
It does take a huge amount of effort and nobody gets paid for their time. But the advantage of joining an existing club is that they already have a lot of experience with putting on events and doing a H&H couldn't be too much of a stretch. Just the interest level of the club members would dictate that.

Never met a CR500 I didn't like.

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

neWRiver

10/28/02, 10:20 AM

quote:Originally posted by big_kaw_huna

I'm going to run this race also. I'm also going to join the ATR and see how I can help out. I want to race but I also understand it doesn't happen overnight and without support it doesn't happen at all. My concern though is if I can't run a race based on helping out the ATR by course marking, etc...

I know exactly how you feel, Paul. I share the same kind of concern. My original interest in ATR was based on my interest in racing enduros. It become's a catch 22. If I join the club, I have to take responsibility for an obligation to work the race. Most of the work functions needed require me to work during the race. Even if I offered my time to work before and after the race, I am not of much use if I can't be out on the course because I want to remain eligible to race. I've grappled with some of these issues myself over the last year and here are some thoughts I came up with.

- If there are no workers, there are no races. However, if there were an abundance of workers than it is quite reasonable to expect that I could fulfill my club duties and still enter some of the races, especially if the race schedule was expanded.

- Whether working or racing, I am learning about how it is done. Also, as a course worker I do get to ride the course with people who are experienced at enduros/singletrack. As a matter of fact, I get to ride with these guys all year long. :D

- What about other race formats like Hare & Hound or Hare Scramble? These types of events sound very appealing to me. Nobody around here is doing any of these yet. Perhaps something like this could grow from the race promoting experience of ATR and an increased demand from the public and new members. Actually, both the endurocross last March and the qualifier event coming up are a departure from the classic enduro format. The club is obviously exploring new formats to increase local popularity. Even if the only way to bring about H&H or HS type races was to start a new club, what better way to learn how to start and run such a club than to serve as a productive member of an existing, similar club first?

Bottom line is I want to race, too. That means we need more people available to set-up and work the events. I'm not going to sit around and wait for someone else to make it happen. And I sure as hell am not going to let individual differences of opinion or past personal conflicts get in the way. ;)

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

PBR

10/28/02, 10:25 AM

Hey, that's my bottom line :D
quote:Originally posted by neWRiver

Bottom line is I want to race, too. That means we need more people available to set-up and work the events. I'm not going to sit around and wait for someone else to make it happen. And I sure as hell am not going to let individual differences of opinion or past personal conflicts get in the way. ;)

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

jkcmotox

10/29/02, 12:51 AM

Maybe I am just a dumb ol' desert racer.........but what is wrong with everyone "Pre-running" the course of a Hare and Hound race?
With the H&H format, there are no hidden special test sections or blind checks, so why not let everyone have a look at the course? Hell, most of the locals that ride any ATR event ride the Pleasant area almost exclusively anyway so it is not like there aren't some people out there that are very familar with anything that will be put together for a course anyway.

A pre-ride not only helps lower injuries but also makes an additional venue for extra earnings for the club and is a great way to introduce new riders to the sport who would not nessicarily (sp) come out to race. I am in the same boat as everyone else, I would love to help but I want to race too.

One thing everyone needs to realize is that racing is "business" from the promoters side of the table. Everyone says so much negative stuff about Whiplash (some that I agree with, some I don't), their courses, their staff,........ Jay, but you know what? They run a full year schedule, the races are close and they are the only game in town. I agree that Arizona is ripe for a new promoter/series, etc. and has been for years.

Hell, you can pretty much pick what track you want race MX at now on any given weekend, but we still have only one ACTIVE promoter of offroad events in this state. I don't feel that the main reason for this is the lack of a succesfull "club" but more about the typical dirtbike rider/racer in this state (and the likelyhood of him spending his hard-earned dollar), the cost of insurance, the above mentioned lack of willing volunteers and the bureaucracy involved with public land use.

I think it will take alot of hard work and more importantly someone with a keen sense of marketing to pull of the birth of any new offroad racing organization in Arizona. And when they do.......30 percent of the racers will think that the course sucked, another 30 percent will think that the entry fee was too high and the remaining racers will swear that either they were mis-scored or that the T-shirts looked the same as last year.

Jkc
#98

"This looks like a job for me, MOTOrious B.I.G.,.......Y to the Z."

Fistfull

10/29/02, 7:38 PM

quote:Originally posted by jkcmotox

I think it will take alot of hard work and more importantly someone with a keen sense of marketing to pull of the birth of any new offroad racing organization in Arizona. And when they do.......30 percent of the racers will think that the course sucked, another 30 percent will think that the entry fee was too high and the remaining racers will swear that either they were mis-scored or that the T-shirts looked the same as last year.

Jkc
#98

"This looks like a job for me, MOTOrious B.I.G.,.......Y to the Z."

Amen brother ;):D
So are you going to race in Tucson this weekend????
Would enjoy seenin and racing with you again.
I'll be there for the practice on Friday and the racin on Saturday.

Anyone else gonna get it in gear and go play at the new venue?????

http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

neWRiver

10/29/02, 8:41 PM

Well I think privately promoted race schedules are fine and I personally have heard more good things than bad about Whiplash. Not really my cup of tea since I prefer more technical formats, but it's great to have alternatives to choose from. I might try it sometime.

I do feel though that there could be more AMA club type activity going on in this area. If you look at the examples previously given, there is a huge potential for club based events. Also, clubs are a good basis for developing non-race activities and offer benefits for all types of riders. Clubs are also a very beneficial structure to provide a way for members to become active in land management issues and help us to place concerted OHV enthusiast representation were it is needed. A lot of trail maintenance and cleanup, for example, which helps us keep our riding privileges could not be accomplished at all without the hard work of the various offroad clubs.

I understand that some people aren't joiners. But there are a lot of us who would like to belong to a good club. :D

Kevin (kevinknorr@msn.com)

2001 WR250F

BigDog

10/29/02, 9:58 PM

Something to consider...part of the reason we may suffer from a lack of AMA organized events in our district is the simple fact that we don't have an AMA representative for our district (31)/state. Any AMA member can become the AMA representative, although I believe you may have to attend some training. PhxMan gave it some consideration but with everything else he has on his plate, something would have had to go for him to take on this responsibility. I believe this position has been empty for a while and it's certainly a good possible cause for the lack of AMA representation in our state.

If anyone is interested in pursuing this worthwhile cause, perhaps you should PM PhxMan for more info.

Just a thought. :)

"I didn't crash...my bike just fell over."

'01 DRZ250

PBR

10/29/02, 10:29 PM

I'll check into it and send Phxman the PM. Thanks for the info
quote:Originally posted by BigDog

Something to consider...part of the reason we may suffer from a lack of AMA organized events in our district is the simple fact that we don't have an AMA representative for our district (31)/state. Any AMA member can become the AMA representative, although I believe you may have to attend some training. PhxMan gave it some consideration but with everything else he has on his plate, something would have had to go for him to take on this responsibility. I believe this position has been empty for a while and it's certainly a good possible cause for the lack of AMA representation in our state.

If anyone is interested in pursuing this worthwhile cause, perhaps you should PM PhxMan for more info.

Just a thought. :)

"I didn't crash...my bike just fell over."

'01 DRZ250

"You chose your ride, go enjoy it"

jkcmotox

10/29/02, 10:53 PM

In regard to the AMA, I believe that it has made huge impacts in the sport of motorcycling (mostly street/road race stuff, that is where the majority of the market lies) but I am not sure about it's positive impact on offroad racing, atleast not at a club level. Let's start with the rule book. Rules and regulations are needed, I understand that part. But if you read through it, and then translate it into what it would cost organizationally to enforce all of those rules, well that's where it kind of gets sticky for "local clubs". I don't have first hand info, but I have heard that ATR had scoring issues with their last national. Again, I know very little about the situation and commend them or any organization who promotes any race in Arizona. I do know that you do EXACTLY what the AMA specifies........or you no longer promote "their" events. Then you look at other industry problems, like the scheduling conflict between the MXdes nations and the US open of supercross that basically kept FEMA(?) from contacting the AMA for help with the MXDN and the silly under the table deal with the COMP park people that came out of that, or the Clearwater Communications vs. AMA battle that almost killed supercross during it's highest attended season in the history of the sport and I start wondering who the AMA is actually trying to benefit. I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I don't get the feeling that it is lil' ol' me!

I have had some interest (or atleast a fantasy)of starting a new race organization in Arizona for a couple of years now (to the point of already having a 32 page rule book drafted and helmet cards, tech sheets and even a simple Access database scoring "spreadsheet" mostly completed) and actually had most of the ground work completed two years ago for a long course Grand Prix based on the now defunct and short lived "Route 66 MX Park" in Holbrook owned by Brad Heward. Brad even had the local Budweiser distributer signed for $5000.00 plus a radio spot in trade for exclusive rights to the beer garden. But, ADOT said NO WAY to us when we proposed to use an overpass of I-40 to connect his race track to family land on the east side of I-40. Everything else was pretty much taken care of, Route 66 MX already had an annual liability policy, private land, a big front end loader and several committed sponsors, but all it takes is one little thing to keep a race from happening.

It taught me alot about what it means to try to pull of promoting a race. It is a very risky business and the politics are endless. I guess that is why you don't see another promoter in AZ right now. I actually sometimes don't think that Arizona has a large enough racer base to support more than one offroad promoter, but I guess that is still left to be seen.

If someone gets something together, I will atleast give them my hard-earned entry fee and buy a T-shirt.

Jkc
#98

"This looks like a job for me, MOTOrious B.I.G.,.......Y to the Z."

jkcmotox

10/29/02, 11:18 PM

In a related matter.....while I am thinking about it...........

Another difficulty a new promoter or club will face is land use issues.

I know that everyone seems to want more technical races. Most likely singletrack type stuff. There are not that many area's I personnaly know of that offer good singletrack and tighter stuff (atleast reasonably close to Phoenix) besides the Bartlett and Pleasant areas.

Well, you can rule out the Bartlett area (or Sycamore for that fact) due to the Tonto Nat'l Forest planning guidelines that actually state that "Competition" events are NOT permitted on any land that they manage.

With the BLM's known OHV friendliness, opportunities might exist there but I can pretty much guarantee that their managers aren't going to give a new organization the use of an area that an existing organization typically uses, atleast not close to the same calendar date (anyone up for a Lake Pleasant race in June?). There are also a couple of land managers and owners still holding grudges against competitive OHV events from bad experiences almost two decades ago with promoters who don't even still exist (Heber ranger district, Young cattle ranchers, etc).

I hope that I am not sounding like I am saying that it impossible for someone new to start promoting new events in Arizona, only that it is alot more involved than marking a course, getting volunteers to sit at check points for 14 hours a day and properly scoring every single bike that goes by, which by themselves are monumental tasks.

Jkc
#98

"This looks like a job for me, MOTOrious B.I.G.,.......Y to the Z."

phxman

10/30/02, 2:10 PM

Some very good discussion and points. As I have been in the middle of both the club and promoter side of things for quite sometime let me add some info as well.

Regarding clubs.
As someone else pointed out there are alot more clubs in other states. Why? I'm not sure but I think its because there is no "need" to join a club to be able to ride in Arizona. Most people already have buddies to ride with and a place or places to ride so they are happy. People also need a reason to join a club, they want to know whats in it for them. If they already have someone to ride with and a place to ride, the rewards start looking thin. You want to start a club? It takes time and patience. Anyone who is interested I would be happy to help them get started. Thats how the Arizona ATV Riders got started.

So, does Arizona/Phoenix need more OHV clubs? Absolutely, and the ability to hold events is just one of the reasons. The Arizona Trail Riders cannot be all things to all the dirtbikers in this state. The ATR focus is on serious trail riding and enduros. Thats what we do and the reason the club was formed in 1985. That will not change. The club has talked about doing a HH event in the past but it takes familiarity and expertise with an event type and ATR does not have HH expertise. If you do and want to see if happen join ATR, get involved in the club and make it happen.

Regarding Promoting:
I think JKC explained it very well. Promoting OHV events is no picnic and as he found out, any little thing can screw it all up. There are all kinds of things that need to be done to promote a single event, not to mention a whole series. I have great respect for Jay and what he is trying to accomplish with the Whiplash series because of this.

Are there new opportunities absolutely. You just have to be willing start early, work hard and be reasonable. The available land for racing is getting smaller so a promoter has to be smarter and change with the times. The ASLD and BLM will work with you but you have to be up front and honest. There are areas which can be used for certain kinds of events but they are futher from Phoenix. As time goes on even the ATR enduro course will have to be moved and hopefully the participants will follow. Personally, I plan on talking to the Tonto because I dont see how they can ban "competitive" events on public land, especially when they have designated OHV areas like the Rolls.

From an AMA standpoint you do have to follow the rules for whatever particular AMA event you are promoting however its not as hard as it might seem. To JKC's point about the AMA....Yes, if you have an AMA National event you do have to follow their procedures but you know what they are going in. ATR lost its National enduro spot because we did not get the AMA the scores in the format they wanted them, in the time parameters they wanted them. We knew what they wanted and how they wanted them we just didnt get the job done. Our bad, not the AMA's.

I dont want to go on as I need to get back to work so I will cut to the chace. I'm glad to see everyone talking about this as we do need more clubs/promoters. I would also like to race an event. If you want to make a difference get involved somehow. Join ATR, join the AMA, join Blue Ribbon Coalition....join something and get involved.

If the greenies can get whole chunks of forest closed to OHV use think what an OHV organizatioin of the same size could do.

Interesting is'nt it.

imported_n/a

10/31/02, 6:50 AM

Is this simplification accurate?:

Choices

1. Join a club that's existing. Hope you can sway them to run an event you like. Work your butt off helping put on said event. Become ineligible to run the event. Get no thanks for your efforts.

2. Start a new club. Go thru major hassles getting membership and all the other fun associated with a new club. Get folks in the club pumped on putting on a killer event. Work your butt off helping put on said event. Become ineligible to run the event. Get no thanks for your efforts.

3. Look at the existing local events, squeal because nobody puts on an event like you want. Squeal about Whiplash (I am guilty), squeal about the Arizona Trail Riders (I am innocent), and squeal that all the good events are held outta state (guilty again). Squealing is much easier than being pro-active and doing #1 or #2 above.

Did I leave anything out? [:p]

Never met a CR500 I didn't like.

Fistfull

10/31/02, 7:56 AM

I think you nailed it, I prefer "whining" to squealing though [:p]

quote:Originally posted by ArmPump

Is this simplification accurate?:

Choices

1. Join a club that's existing. Hope you can sway them to run an event you like. Work your butt off helping put on said event. Become ineligible to run the event. Get no thanks for your efforts.

2. Start a new club. Go thru major hassles getting membership and all the other fun associated with a new club. Get folks in the club pumped on putting on a killer event. Work your butt off helping put on said event. Become ineligible to run the event. Get no thanks for your efforts.

3. Look at the existing local events, squeal because nobody puts on an event like you want. Squeal about Whiplash (I am guilty), squeal about the Arizona Trail Riders (I am innocent), and squeal that all the good events are held outta state (guilty again). Squealing is much easier than being pro-active and doing #1 or #2 above.

Did I leave anything out? [:p]

Never met a CR500 I didn't like.

http://ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/fistfull/Fistfull.jpg
2000 XR650R
Whiplash #724
Repeat after me - The throttle is your friend, the throttle is your friend <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>