View Full Version : How to get more out of my Raptor for the dunes ...
twvette
10/19/04, 12:45 PM
Had my first dune experience at Glamis last weekend. It was awesome and the Raptor 660r did great for the most part. However:
1. It just doesnt have enough when you have to slow up a little in second gear (making a bit of an unexpected or tight turn or when someoene in the caravan gets too slow)and if you down shift to 1st it just winds up too much and digs a hole essentially. This is somewhat rare and maageable but sure would be nice to a little extra in the lower RPM range.
2. Not really impressed how it pulls in stock form straight up the drag hills like olds hill. First gear is obviously just fine and second holds it own until about 1/2 way up and then I am full throttle and just have to chug to the top as is slowly bogs down. Again, down shifting to 1st would be too much and dont see that it would really help.
I am no expert here but it seems it could benefit from a /gear/sprocket change. I also have very similar opinion about how it behaves on some of the technical spots in rough mountain/technical terrain. 1st gear is too much but wouldnt necessarily want to change it but second just seems too high in general. So, do other do a gear/sprocket change to help with what I am describing and if so what do I go to ???
I could do the obvious an dget a pipe and high flow filter but would this really help ??? Sometimes this stuff hurts on the low RPM power and benefits you on high rpm or visa versa, so I dont know if this would help a Raptor.
What else would help ??? I want to maintain relaibility of the bike and not do anything too obvious as I have an extended warranty that I want to keep.
I also, as mentioned, do some high elevation riding so also dont want to make it run only in lower elevations. Maybe a dial a jet is the answer here regardless of what I do ????
I know one fix would be to get a lighter seat ... I have one of those special really comfortable thick models that weight like 235lbs ;) ... never have really figured out why most of the girls dont like em ;)
Thanks in advance ...
Arizona Griz
10/19/04, 12:57 PM
The easiest fix and what most of my friends have done, which I am soon to do, is to change the front sprocket to a 12 tooth, aftermarket exhaust, air filter kit and new jetting.
My stock Raptor runs about 75% of the time is second gear and 25% of the time in third gear. The "altered" Raptors run about 25% of the time in second and 75% in third. It just get nerve racking having to shift so much.
Just like Griz said.
Pipe, Filter (airbox mod) and rejet it. It will be like a new quad. You need to unleash some of that power. You can drop 1 tooth in the front (which is almost the same as raising the rear sprocket by 3 teeth).
Also, if you change out the front sprocket, you will Rev tons faster (maybe too fast and hit the limiter all the time) [?]
I know that If I drop down to a 13 (from 14) on my Predator, the chain will wear out the chain guide. So I should only change out the rear, which is what I'm gonna do.
Check out www.bluetraxx.com for information on making that thing more stout.
Also, I have considered the Dial-a-jet myself and looks pretty sweet if you get it jetted good from the start, this thing will take over in the higher elevations and help out a ton.
Hope this helps. [8D]
Bro in Law has a Raptor piped with a White Brothers slip on, K&N and jetting. Its a monster on low end torque now.
K&N, take off the airbox lid, GYT-R pipe and jet kit, 42 tooth rear sprocket and you are set!
Mark
Dropping a tooth in the front sprocket is just what the doctor ordered. It's much less hassle than changing the rear. A full pipe, jetting and air box mod will wake up the demons within that much more! But for a quick inexpensive fix to the second gear bogs just get a smaller front sprocket.
Shane
Changing the rear sprocket is very easy, and it does not strain the chain as much. Header pipe makes little difference without valve and head modifications. Just my experience, and you can save $200.
Mark
Still a little confused as I would say my Raptor was in 1st about 5% (only when making mistakes), second about 85%, and third about 10% (only in the larger bowls going accross or down the bowl). Think this is the extra 40-50+ pound weight difference I have over the average rider likely ... in other words is the Raptor really that sprung weight sensative or is mine perhaps under performing ???
For thos ethat run Olds, did you actually make it into 3rd gear going up ... again I wa sin second and way bogged down starting about half way up.
Anyways, thanks for the input and I am sure I will be doing the suggested mods as this engine has gotta have much more pep in it.
Arizona Griz
10/20/04, 5:26 AM
One of my riding friends weighs 260 pounds and his modified Raptor does fine. They take the hills in third gear where I have to use second gear. I don't think the weight plays into it as much as the modification.
Just Ride It
10/20/04, 7:12 AM
What I find best when shooting the hill like Olds it to get take off fast and get into 3rd before hitting the hill and then when needed down shift to second. I also agree that dropping the tooth on the front sprocket will get you up the hill better and help eliminate some of the need to shift when duning. The Pipe, filter and jetting are the icing on the cake, but the sprocket is a cheap way to get some more power. I don't think the weight is much of a factor, my friend is about 275 and he rides a stock Raptor and goes evertwhere fine.
Once you change the front sprocket (or whatever sprocket you decide) third gear should be your cruise gear. As far as Olds. hill.....it's more than likely your big ol booty ;)[B)] slow'n ya down J/K!
When I race up Old's (on the slow side mind you) I drop the clutch full throtle in second gear power shift to third about half way through the woops and up to the top I go! At least thats how it was last dune season....I was 10 pounds lighter then, 185lbs now. I was a firm believer that a head pipe was not needed until port work was done but I found a full Alien exaust for a really good price, put it on and couldn't believe the difference over just a slip on.
See ya at the dunes!
Shane
DuneRebel
10/20/04, 6:58 PM
How to get the most out of your raptor....hmmm....
The classified ads.
Sandrider
10/21/04, 2:43 AM
You could put fuel injection and a turbo on it like I did to my DS650.:D
DS's don't need that. Unless your triing to compensate for something.
I'm with Griz and all who agreed with him. Dropping a tooth in the front will do wonders for you in the sand. ESPECIALLY WHEN RUNNNING THE HILLS.
Here is a but of a concern. Most Rptors are pretty easy to wheelie. By going with a smaller tooth it will become even easier. A slight mod to your riding style will have to happen as well like getting your weight even more forward during starts. This will help keep those front lower to the ground until you can get your weight back.
Good luck!!!! and let us know what you end up doing.
twvette
10/23/04, 10:09 AM
I want to do the sprocket change (considering both front or rear change) but I have a swing arm skid plate with little clearance between it and the chain/sprocket and with all the other chain guides can I really just go one tooth less on the front and/or two or three more on the rear without any chain clearance issues and not buying a new chain with more/less links ????
Or just get with Ken over at KENTSZCYCLE TECH as he builds rappys all day long..pick his brain a little..
Sandrider you got pictures of the BEAST with the turbo and injection??like to see that!!!
Yep! Just one tooth in the front and it's a whole new ball game.....GET ER DONE!
Shane
Sandrider
10/24/04, 1:50 AM
quote:Originally posted by jwalk1
DS's don't need that. Unless your trying to compensate for something.
Oh, I'm compensating for something all right...:D
Got to compensate for about 130 extra pounds. It seems a lot easier to add parts to my DS than to lose weight....[:p]
Also, my built Banshee accelerates up the bowls much quicker than my DS. I want the "feel" of the two stroke but the dependability and less maintainance of a four stroke, so I'm trying fuel injection and a turbo, hoping I get close.
Just Ride It
10/25/04, 9:40 AM
If you drop the tooth in the front you may not have to do anything with the chain if you can get it tightened again. I bought a chain tool for 20 bucks or so and dropped a link myself, it is easy and the links are cheap at any shop.
Sandrider
10/25/04, 3:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Just Ride It
If you drop the tooth in the front you may not have to do anything with the chain if you can get it tightened again.
This would work but I would be duning at a slower pace.
I'm trying to make my DS650 ride as close to a two stroke (I'm coming from a built and tuned for my weight Banshee) as possible and still keep up with the high speed runs. With the Turbo & fuel injection, I am able to go UP one tooth on the front sprocket and I may put 22" rear paddles on it too.
We ride pretty fast and aggressively. I was following a guy on a DS650 last year and had trouble staying with him....but he only weighed 150 pounds....So its lose weight or spend money...its much easier to spend the money....:D
Arizona Griz
10/25/04, 4:22 PM
The chain wlll fit without taking out a link and I can't see where it would hurt the top speed to much since a stock Raptor can't hold 5th gear in the dunes without lugging it anyways. We also ride very agressively and I am only able to hit 5th gear every once in a while in the sand bowls.
quote:Originally posted by Sandrider
[quote]Originally posted by Just Ride It
..So its lose weight or spend money...its much easier to spend the money....:D
Now that's the way it's done IMO.:D
To finish off the post ...
Ended up getting a full CT Racing pipe, 43 tooth rear sprocket, opened the airbox, and using Pro Flow foam filter ... the difference is unbelievable.
Had Kenz Cycle Tech do the jetting on the dyno to get it right as raptors seem to be the pickiest bike to get jetted right (and I am lazy). They changed the needles (dont know what clip positions they used) and used 150 and 160 jets. Was a bit suprised at the jetting as the recommended is 170 and 175, but this seems to be the only vendor that recommends that high if jetting. Dyno posted below. Note, everyone is telling me the ultimate numbers vary alot from Dyno to Dyno so dont know if the values are "actual" but all the dynos are very useful in jetting to look at the curves. In general, it is believed the raptor puts out 34hp to 37hp stock ... I am in theory getting almost 45hp now and it should be noted I forgot that I had 1.5 month old gas in it so it might be a little higher than that now ... CT claims they are getting 48hp on their bike with same mods. FYI ... other dynos show Raptors only put out high 30's hp when very heavily modified so again dont take the number as actual. Kinda wish I would have not done the install of the parts first as it would have been interesting to see what this dyno said in stock fashion to atleast get a fairly factual % increase idea. Anyways, attached is my dyno chart:
http://www.ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/twvette/2004122320393_dyno.jpg
Have had it to the dunes once and overall there was atleast a 50% seat of the pants increase in power. Pulled up the hills without any chugging or signs of quiting. Caught myself naturally riding wheelies going accross the big stuff when cutting accross to go back down. Was able to stay in 2nd for the large bulk of cruising around. Kinda freaked me out on my first hill drag climb as I got kinda a slow start and then it started to bog down about 3/4 the y up ... turns out I started in 3rd and was in 4th ;) .... gotta get use to riding in the big new bulky boots I bought ;). The sand was a bit too wet and rutted out due to the dunes not being able to clean the ruts overnight so cant waint to see how fast it climbs in the dry typical sand.
I did replace the chain when doing the 43 toot sprocket change (lazy again ... had someone else do it) as they didnt think it would fit and even if it did it would be at its nearest position so it would also wear a little quicker. I dont know how many links they actually needed and havent looked to see if they had to shim up my aftermarket skid plate. Thanks to Kelly's Kawasaki for letting me convince them to have a Yamaha in their shop and get me out the same day ... these guys always "hook me up" whether it be Dave or the other guys back in service. Sorry but I gotta continue to plug these guys ... how often do you pull up into a service shop and have two techs stop whatever they are doing and run to your truck to undo the tow straps, etc. before you ever step foot out of the truck !!!!????
Only disadvantage to the CT full system is there pipes are so large it could really use some heat shields (near the fron and also the back under the seat region) ... burned my new pants and am going to have to rig something up.
Arizona Griz
12/23/04, 4:59 PM
Thank's for the review and information. :)
on my 03 rapter i put a gyt header and silencer with the gyt jet kit and airbox mod to get the lid off and i used a 14 tooth front sprocket to widen out the gaps in the gears and it gave it monster top end but still had the torque with all the mods to the motor.
TWVETTE, Were those Dynojet jets or Mikuni jets Kenz put in your carbs.