View Full Version : Fifth wheel toy hauler help ...
Well, I am looking at a toy hauler and from input from others and looking at them at the RV show we are set on getting a fifth wheel most likely. The floorplan works for us best in the 5th wheel setup and others have convinced me they pull MUCH better. We wont get one with the seperate garage area or below 30ft as it limits how many toys you can haul typically to 2 (with garage) or 3 (under 26ft no garage). We are currently eyeing a 30ft Ragen. However, as I am also looking used, etc. I also see several 36 or 38ft ones around the same price range. I need a new truck anyway so I will more than likely get a 2003 or 2004 F250 Crew Cab Diesel. Here are some questions (off the top of my head ... any input, concerns, suggestions, "make sure you get the *feature*" would be appreciated):
- A 30ft fifth wheel would really be like 24ft pull behind, right ???
- Doesnt you overall max tow load increase since its a 5th wheel ??? In general, how much on a 3/4 ton truck ???
- Any general downsides to a fifth wheel (besides loosing your truck bed space)
- At what point would you need to go up to a one ton truck from a 3/4 ton ??? Would the 36 to 38ft haulers require a 1 ton truck in general ???
- What generator do I really need ... most come with a 4000 Onan but with a 30ft trailer it seems to be in that gray area and some think you really need a 5500 Onan if running ac plus appliances.
- At what size trailer do you think you really start to be hassled by it being too big. I mean for the dunes there is really no issue but can you get a 30 ft 5ht wheel in most forest service spaces/roads ??? 36ft ??? 38ft ???
I am still open to just about everything as I have just started researching so again any input would be appreciated and bare with me through these questions ;)
mlbelden
02/07/05, 2:59 PM
But a 1 ton truck it leaves many more options. The ride quality of a 1 ton is about the same as a 3/4 ton. There is not much price difference either. Be careful about length. Make sure you read the length from the spec. sheet not the model, some I have looked at that say 36 foot on the model are actually 38 feet long. Buy what you like.
matt
Arizona Griz
02/07/05, 3:08 PM
- A 30ft fifth wheel would really be like 24ft pull behind, right ???
If you are refering to total length, yes
- Doesnt you overall max tow load increase since its a 5th wheel ??? No In general, how much on a 3/4 ton truck ??? You need to check the tow ratings of the particular truck, it should be between 10,000 and 15,000 pounds.
- Any general downsides to a fifth wheel (besides loosing your truck bed space)I have a tounge pull type but most of my friends have fifth wheel types and like them.
- At what point would you need to go up to a one ton truck from a 3/4 ton ??? I would only use a one ton truck, larger is always better with a pickup. Would the 36 to 38ft haulers require a 1 ton truck in general ??? Again, it depends on the tow ratings of the truck. I would get a one ton pickup.
- What generator do I really need ... most come with a 4000 Onan but with a 30ft trailer it seems to be in that gray area and some think you really need a 5500 Onan if running ac plus appliances. If the trailer only offers a 4K unit then all of the accessories should run on it. I have a 23footer with a 5.5K generator.
- At what size trailer do you think you really start to be hassled by it being too big. I mean for the dunes there is really no issue but can you get a 30 ft 5ht wheel in most forest service spaces/roads ??? 36ft ??? 38ft ??? I can't say for camping since I don't have one that large.
twvette,
I have had a tongue pull 26 ft, the fifth wheel I bought from Johnny Walker in Las Vegas. I saved about 2k by going there. Plus I spent the night in Vegas. (rough assignment)I got a 33 ft Tahoe with a slide out on the upfront bedroom. Pull it with a GMC 2500HD Duramax. The generator is a 5500 Onan Marquis Gold. I fit 4 quads and a dirt bike in there. The one ton will give you a stiffer ride a bit but not too noticeable, as far as generators, I never camp when its so hot out that I have to use the AC. Heading up North in the summer is great. Forest roads have not been a problem but if you were one to camp in designated spaces each camp ground has different limits on length, just plan ahead. BEST OF LUCK
A 30ft fifth wheel would really be like 24ft pull behind, right ???
- Doesnt you overall max tow load increase since its a 5th wheel ??? In general, how much on a 3/4 ton truck ??? The F250 with the diesel option really looses alot in payload. Most 5vers that length will be pushing the limit of the F250
- At what point would you need to go up to a one ton truck from a 3/4 ton ??? Would the 36 to 38ft haulers require a 1 ton truck in general ???If you're thinking fifthwheel then get the F350
- What generator do I really need ... most come with a 4000 Onan but with a 30ft trailer it seems to be in that gray area and some think you really need a 5500 Onan if running ac plus appliances.The trailer has a 30A service. 30A x 120V is 3600watts. 4000 should be plenty
- At what size trailer do you think you really start to be hassled by it being too big. I mean for the dunes there is really no issue but can you get a 30 ft 5ht wheel in most forest service spaces/roads ??? 36ft ??? 38ft ???I would think that the larger units would limit "how far back" you can go.
I have seen the Ragen 30 footer and it is a nice unit.
I would avoid 2003 and 2004 Ford 6.0 diesels. There have been way to many issues with them, especially the 2003. Look here for that info and towing info: www.thedieselstop.com
3Polarisbears
02/08/05, 11:56 AM
We had a tow behind toyhauler. I absolutly hated it. It was consatntly dirty, the couches aren't comforatble yuk yuk yuk. We now pull doubles. A 25 foot or so fifth wheel and then an open trailer for the quads. It really works for us. Enough room for evrything and when we want to go somewhere with just the quads we can and when we want to go somewhere and just camp we can too. Hubby has a 3/4 ton dodge. We like it. But it always seems that you always want something different, like another slide or different feature.
3polaris bears
Huuummm, any way to safely get away with being a bit overloaded ???
I went back to the RV show and am now looking at a 26ft Rampage fifth wheel. I wont be able to get 4 quads in it (3 full size or maybe 4 if two are kids versions) and its still weighs 8235 lbs unloaded (real weight ... they weight each individual unit with the options installed). So, my Dodge 1500 4x4 quad cab 5.9L appears to be rated for 7250 pounds (depends where I look ... one place say 9100lbs). So, by the time I am loaded up I assume I will be in the 9100-9600 range. Would be a little less than this during part of the trip if I can get water closer to the destination, etc. This leaves me a bit overloaded but again I dont know what the fifth wheel factor is. With it being essentially the lenght of ~21ft tow behind and weight better distributed I might be able to get away with it. The purpose of this would be to see if I could get away with not buying a new truck for a while ... I dont care (soemwhat)if it destroys my tranny as its still under extended warranty ;). I know nobody is really going to recommend this but whats your thoughts if I should even try this. I could except the fact of going 60 mph max and lug'n it very slowly up the hills. Just pondering the thought ... dont know if I will actually do it regardless.
Arizona Griz
02/08/05, 3:23 PM
I don't think you realize how slow you really are going to be going up the hills. I have commented on Dodge pickup before. Mine is a 2001 4X4 3/4 ton with 4.11 gears and is an automatic. It is a gutless wonder. It is only rated to pull 8800 pounds, so I think your 9100 pounds is out. I cannot pull my trailer at 8200 pounds loaded comfortably. You definitely are going to be making a mistake. Good luck anyways.
Rapp Dude
02/08/05, 4:44 PM
Have you looked into the superlite 5th wheels by weekend warrior? They are supposed to be marketed towards the 1/2 ton crowd? I think the 29' model runs about 6,000-6,500 empty just a thought
mlbelden
02/08/05, 6:20 PM
There was an article on this board a while back that said a guy was held liable in a wreck because he was overweight. I would not tow a trailer I was not rated to pull.
matt
quote:Originally posted by Rapp Dude
Have you looked into the superlite 5th wheels by weekend warrior? They are supposed to be marketed towards the 1/2 ton crowd? I think the 29' model runs about 6,000-6,500 empty just a thought
If they are anything like the Rampage you'd have to be a little person to have head room in the loft
Rapp Dude
02/09/05, 5:02 AM
Actually, the 06 models have plenty of room for most people, however with the increased head room comes an increased higher profile check out the attached
http://www.a1warriortrailers.com/sl.htm
Sandrider
02/09/05, 5:56 AM
Don't just worry about the weight and how fast you can go up hills....
You need to worry more about how fast you go DOWN hills and the tow vehicles ability to control the load and slow the entire vehicle combination. You also should consider overall safety and handling, like getting a sudden 30 mph crosswind, being passed by a semi, or a sudden blow out. These things can and DO happen and your tow vehicle (and your driving skills) MUST be able to handle an event like that.
Get a 1 ton pickup with the longest wheel base you can find, it adds more stability to towing. Getting a dually even adds more stability, plus makes it harder to get stuck in the sand.
Weight is also an important issue. A vehicle combination weight that exceeds the combined gross vehicle weight rating can be deemed an unsafe vehicle and the driver can be cited and the vehicle parked.
Of course the only way you would get caught is to be stopped and weighed, or get in a wreck and weighed. If someone was severly injured or killed and your vehicle is overweight, serious criminal charges may apply.
As you can see, there are a lot of issues to be WEIGHED when a person considers what rig to set themselves up with.
[8D]
ahsumtoy
02/09/05, 12:50 PM
Listen to everyone here. They are correct. You are making a mistake. I pull 10,000 lbs with a Chevy 1 ton 8.1 liter 4x4 and it is still slow going up large hills (about 35 mph). I can't imagine your 1/2 ton making it up some large hills let alone managing to slow it down coming down some steep hills. Check out some of the light trailers if you're sticking with your 1/2 ton. If you need to haul 4 quads, maybe you could put 3 in the lite and one in the back of your truck (this would mean you don't get a 5th wheel). If cost is no object, get yourself a 1 ton with a large engine, preferably a diesel, and a large 5th wheel.
I have been pulling a 33 ft 5th wheel toy box for the past 5 years, I started with 3/4 dodge diesel it was gut less, I had to put a chip in it just to get it up a grade. Then the auto tranny started to go because of the increase in power. I upgraded to a 3/4 f-250 diesel power stroke. This has plenty of power and stopping ability. I have pulled it in the sand up and down mountains from Arizona to oregon to rock point and back. The problem is the auto tranny is going out for the 4th time. Power is not the problem, if you plan to do any real pulling get your self a manual transmission, it will save you about $ 2500.00 a year if you do any real pulling. From what I have read and I have researched it quite a bit the only auto tranny that will hold up is the allision. The brand of truck is not important but the power train is.
Thanks for all the info and its just further proof I dont want to even think about using my Ram 1500 (I already kinda knew this but just wanted confirmation) for a fifth wheel.
Rappdude - thanks for the weekend warrior idea ... they look like exactly what we want but still at 6200lbs dry on the 28ft I would be overloaded a bit when laoded ... probably 7700 lbs or so. The previous gen dodge's are pretty gutless so I really am not sure it can handle the ~7250 pounds on a grade. So, I think my options are to just settle on a bumper pull 24ft or smaller or upgrade the truck and get the hauler we really wants ... financially this is reall scaring the wife obviously ;) ... but I really could use a new truck anyways so dont know which way we will go. I am thinking of renting a 21ft this weekend just to see how the truck handles it and to get a "toy-hauler experience" before buying.
Not really considering this (or maybe I should), but I also heard the new Nissan Titan has a tow rating up in the 9,000 range ... anyone buying into this ... it looks even slightly smaller than the domestic trucks so even if it has the power (I heard dyno numbers are very impressive on this truck) can it really possible handle a toy hauler (aka ... highway parachute) anywhere close to the rating ??? I mean, what about the 6,200lb dry 28ft Weekend Warrior fifth wheel behind a Titan ??? Just curious ... would probably rather opt for a used 3/4 ton instead but again just curious.
Arizona Griz
02/09/05, 7:48 PM
Just remember a 6200lb. dry is going to weight between 8000 to 9000lbs. wet. :(
I almost settled with a 22 footer because we had a Yukon. The wife made me trade it in for a GMC 3/4 ton HD so now I have some slack to play with. The 22ft would have been just a little small and just alittle to heavey for the yukon if I ran with full tanks of water.
My advice would be if there is any way to upgrade your vehicle do it first so later down the road your not wishing for a larger hauler.
I'm still shopping and will probibly be doing it for another 3 or 4 months unless there's a deal I can't pass up.
This thread has shined some light on my search and I hope the comments keep coming.
The Titan I have a read about some peeps pulling the 26" Attitude, and they said it pulls awesome. Attitudes are running about 9k wet and loaded.
My opinion is buy more trailer than you think you need, because you may be upgrading in a year and taking a big hit.
Just like Fool is thinking, if nothing else lets keep this thread going as its good info.
Here are some more items of discussion:
- What if your truck is lifted. I know, not really good for towing ... but lots of used ones are already lifted anywheres from just 3in to maybe 5in plus and there is already a large difference between some of the stock 4x4 models and the stock 2wd ... how much "play" is there in a fifth wheel system for height changes and/or do you have to start lifting the height of the fifth wheel trailer ????
- I realized most (if not all) fifth wheels have the generator sitting right below the bed that is usually at the front of the RV ... this has to be a downside to a fifth wheel right ??? I know, most have said if you are really camping and have to continuosly have the generator going its going to be annoying regardless and probably not a fun time in general if tnot cooling down at night but how much worse is it with the genrator right underneath you ???
- Any issues with the tow vehicle being a short bed. I dont thing so except the fact its always better to have a longer, wider, heavier tow vehicle to better help control the trailer but just want to verify a short bed is a non-issue in a fifth wheel.
- I see some people who have either removed their tail gates on the tow vehicle or bought a semi v-shaped tail gate. I assume this just helps making it easier to get it hitched up, etc. but does this have anything to do with providing more clearance for the trailer to pivot up and down without it hitting the tail gate or something ??? I assume this kinda ties into the lift truck question above where i assume you have to watch the clearances and maybe do to some compensating with the hitch/tailgate ???
Arizona Griz
02/10/05, 2:00 PM
You have obviously been doing your homework since you have answered most of your questions yourself.
1. With a lifted truck the trailer will be high in the front. I am sure there is some adjustability on the fifth wheel hitch but I just don't know how much. You could end up hitting the bed in tight corner on a rough road.
2. You could always install an inverter to keep the generator running to a minimum. The inverter though will not run the AC units. They will run a TV, microwave and simple AC circuited items.
3. Longer the truck better the stability. I do have friends that have fifth wheels with short bed crew cab Fords though.
4. Keep in mind, if the trailer is going to hit the tailgate it is going to hit the bed. Remember the trailer is wider than the truck.
quad couple
02/10/05, 4:58 PM
With a lifted truck check-out flipping the axles of the 5th wheel
trailer. This should level out the rig, but the trailer step will be
higher.
Solar panels work well with a invertor in keeping your batteries
charged.
3Polarisbears
02/10/05, 6:11 PM
We had our axles flipped. I then bought Spa steps from target cause it is a long was down. My husband also put in two really high end batteries and we can go the whole weekend dry camping without any trouble.
Paula
My f-250 is a 4x4 and it sits fairly high, but the 5th wheel pin on the wander wagon is adjustable up to about 10 inches, I go down the road pretty level and a lot of the times if I don't need my truck I don't even unhook. As far the generator noise I have a 4k onan whisper quite under the master bedroom. You can hear it but we have no trouble sleeping. I installed a 1000 watt inverter and it runs my tv and sat dish just find, I just fire up my generator every hour or two to top of the batteries.
RathrBdunin
02/11/05, 6:40 PM
AZ G -- You need the V10 Dodge -- It's incredible ! As fast as you want to pull !
Hills -- they become more of a fun event instead of a challange !
[8D]
Arizona Griz
02/11/05, 7:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by RathrBdunin
AZ G -- You need the V10 Dodge -- It's incredible ! As fast as you want to pull !
Hills -- they become more of a fun event instead of a challange !
[8D]
The truck I drive is a company truck. When I do buy one it will either be a Dodge H.O. diesel with a 6 speed or a Ford diesel with a 6 speed. :D I wonder what the M.P.G. is in the V10 Dodge?
RathrBdunin
02/12/05, 7:33 AM
9 - 9 1/2 mpg. towing @ 75 mpg. 12-13 mpg in town. Smooth, very quiet and lots of power. [8D]
ahsumtoy
02/14/05, 12:00 PM
My next door neighbor is one of the best mechanics I know. He has a 2004 Ford 1 ton diesel. He is buying a 35 foot weekend warrior 5th wheel and he is selling his truck. Why - he says (just like 1ronbo said), it's not the power he is worried about, it's the tranny. He has worked on toooo many trannies and he says you can not beat the allison tranny. It's the best you can have. He is buying a Chevy 1 ton diesel with the allison tranny to tow his 5th wheel.
Arizona Griz
02/14/05, 12:11 PM
He must not like to shift manually with a 6 speed. :D
Griz/others,
Do you really want a manual ??? I mean, maybe you dont kill the tranny but dont you go through clutches then (not a mechanic ... just a thought)??? It just also seems like it would be much more "work" and the point is to get out relax and have some fun. Just my .02 to think about. I have a 6sp vette and love driving it in general but it gets annoying in traffic, etc. as it has so much power and its just not a comfortable situation in that case ... I would assume a manual hauling a big trailer might be kinda the same thing. Its all personal preference (and I am getting lazier the older I get) but I personally would go auto and just make sure to get an extended warranty and not worry about it then. Its a theory (whether true or not) that people are killing off all these auto trannys so quickly doing 75mph up hills, etc. and just flat out hammering it down all the time in this heat, etc. The other thing is every tow rating I have seen goes down significantly with a manual tranny ... I dont understand this if its supposed to be a tougher setup.
Arizona Griz
02/14/05, 6:49 PM
An auto does have a greater towing capacity, but I just favor standards. They can be a hassle in the city but you get used to it. One point I like is the fact that you are always in the gear you want. You can have clutch problems but most problems result in people not knowing how to shift correctly with the clutch.
I have drove everything from tri-cyles to 18 wheelers and if it has and auto tranny and your doing some heavy pulling sooner than later your in for some serious repair bills. Tommorow I'm going to drop off $ 1700.00 to my favorite transmission shop and pick up my f-250 which dearly love, but I wish it had a manual tranny. This is the second tranny and the 4th time its been worked on. And no I don't beat on it 75 mph up hill. It is mostly two lane highway from bhc,az to Glamis at about 60 and not to many grades and nothing to steep. And trust me a clutch is a lot cheaper fix than a tranny and lot tougher and mujch less likely to go down. It might be a bit of a pain to drive in down town phx to start with but you will get use to it quickly. If you look around you might be suprised at how many manual trannies are out there from big and little trucks, jeeps and sports cars. And the manual gives you better gas mileage. I would love to have a new duramax with the allision but $ 47,000.00 is a little out of my league right now.
mlbelden
02/16/05, 5:02 PM
It seems that somebody would make a tougher aftermarket auto tranny to replace the stock auto tranny with.
matt
cwolfe123
02/17/05, 5:48 PM
we were in the same boat about which toyhauler we finally bought on a 36 FT RAPTOR We havent taken delivery yet but i think its too big to go camping and stuff we have a 2003 dodge ram 2500 diesel and the towing rate in that is 12000 lbs the dry weight on the rv is 10800lbs i think were cutting it close but hubby says no
quote:Originally posted by cwolfe123
we were in the same boat about which toyhauler we finally bought on a 36 FT RAPTOR We havent taken delivery yet but i think its too big to go camping and stuff we have a 2003 dodge ram 2500 diesel and the towing rate in that is 12000 lbs the dry weight on the rv is 10800lbs i think were cutting it close but hubby says no
With water and Bikes and goodies be close, let me know how it does I would like to get one sometime Thanks
quote:Originally posted by mlbelden
It seems that somebody would make a tougher aftermarket auto tranny to replace the stock auto tranny with.
matt
Advance Turbo Systems in Colorado offers a monster tranny. They take the OEM tranny and turn it into a monster but it's not going to be cheap.
quote:Originally posted by cwolfe123
we were in the same boat about which toyhauler we finally bought on a 36 FT RAPTOR We havent taken delivery yet but i think its too big to go camping and stuff we have a 2003 dodge ram 2500 diesel and the towing rate in that is 12000 lbs the dry weight on the rv is 10800lbs i think were cutting it close but hubby says no
If you have the 3612 (dual slide)it's right at 11800lbs. dry. Like RifRaf said...gonna be close.
They are big but they are comfy and they tow really nice:D.