View Full Version : Changing our public image - Let's brainstorm
mcneildn
11/03/05, 6:06 PM
Now that I've lit some fires in another thread by bashing quads [:p], hopefully I've sparked some thought about how reckless hoons on BOTH 2 wheels and 4 wheels are the most visible by the public. While trail maintenance & cleanup is a great benefit, I see it as merely a step in the right direction. Sadly, it's somewhat clear that the 2 and 4 wheeled communities are divided, but the truth is we're all on the same team when it comes to protecting and preserving our riding areas by both projecting a positive image of ourselves to the public as well as educating new riders to proper trail ettiquette. I know there's more that we can do, but I'm feeling a little slow in the head with this [:I]
I wanted to start up a new thread and hopefully some ideas on how to acheive a better public image will start to flow in. Then we can all work together to acheive some common goals. I'll throw a few ideas down. Please add your ideas as you think of them [8D]
mcneildn
11/03/05, 6:10 PM
For starters, join & support the AMA and Blue Ribbon Coalition
Trail cleanups (no brainer)
Delegate someone in each of the local riding clubs as a "Club Liason" so that we may communicate our ideas on public relations. Maybe do some joint cleanups?
farfromhome63
11/03/05, 7:26 PM
maybee we need to have somekind of press confrence and annouce our goals and provide a long term goal that is visible to the public eye, we need some good exposure like hm for every bad thing in papers this year, we need to counteract that with twice the good reports in news papers " today RA members gathered to help with a community saftey couse giving demonstrations on helmet safety along with other saftey practices." that of course is the kind of exposure the off road community needs.
farfromhome63
11/03/05, 7:27 PM
also call the news papers and see what they can do to help. there is a ton of stuff to do that costs time not money.
After years of listening to the stories Jeff Gursh has from dealing with various land managers and uninformed OHV enthusiasts, one thing has become painfully clear:
Until the dealers step up and start providing information to people who purchases bikes and quads, we're going to continue to do nothing but "put out fires" caused by irresponsible OHVers. We're always reacting to bad behavior. Right now you can walk into a dealer, buy a bike or quad, and walk out the door with no idea where to ride legally, how to ride responsibly, and no idea of clubs or organizations to join.
If we're going to educate our own members, it needs to happen right at the very beginning...when you make a purchase. We need to get the dealers to understand that if they don't help in this matter, pretty soon our riding areas are going to get shut down. When all the fun, scenic, legal places to ride have been shut down, there's less incentive to purchase an OHV.
Every person who purchases a bike or quad should be given a packet that includes information on BLM, State, and Forest Service lands, how and where to get permits, recognized OHV areas, places that offer riding instruction, where to get maps, trail ettiquette, ATV and dirtbike clubs, Blue Ribbon Coalition, AMA, AZOHVC, etc. Who would put this packet together? Probably the new AZOHVC. By the way, are you a member of this organization? Do you know what the AZOHVC is trying to accomplish? If not, look them up or attend one of their General meetings.
Oh well, that's just my .02 worth.
baldieboy
11/04/05, 6:36 PM
BigDog is right when I bought my first dirt bike(6 months ago)I
had no ideal of where to ride. I also had no ideal about permits,
none of the guys I'd ever talked to before buying the bike said anything about permits.Was I suprised when I received a plate for my 2stroke dirt bike.A little info from the dealer would have been great.I even told them this was my first dirt bike and I'd never ridden dirt.
billygoat
11/04/05, 10:08 PM
The big dog is right and I like mcnielden's idea of solidarity. A black eye is a black eye. AZ OHV Coalition is the way to go. Also dealer education starts with a push from customers. Dealers don't want to get political, but NO TRAILS, NO SALES. I would advocate for buying from dealers 'who get it'.
farfromhome63
11/05/05, 12:14 AM
I agree maybee we could get together with the manufacturers and set something up from the factory cause thats where it all starts
mcneildn
11/05/05, 8:41 AM
Great ideas rolling in! Here's the AZ OHV link:
http://www.azohv.org/
At our next club meeting I'll bring these ideas to the table. One I have in mind, thanks to Trish's great insight, is to get a line of communication going with other clubs in the area and discuss the possibility of putting together a joint "OHV Intro package" of sorts and see if we can make it available at dealerships and/or other outlets for new riders in our area. [8D]
That "intro" packet sounds like a great idea! I think a lot of responsible people who buy a quad/dirt bike for the first time would probably get in touch with one of the clubs. A list of clear rules and regs for off road riding in AZ would definitely help as well. Just look at all the questions we get from new members about rules and permits. If these get made, maybe we could get extras distributed to the clubs. That way when a new member asks about rules we can send them a packet.
I think the dealerships really need to step up and support the various organizations more. If we lose riding areas and get tougher rules it can only hurt their sales. It has never made sense to me that dealers and manufacturers don't get involved more in helping to keep public lands open. Just offering a free training course isn't enough.
My .50 cents;)
Brian
soldidude
11/06/05, 9:38 AM
I also agree with mcneildn - start with the dealers (manus may be harder to get to). His post that initiated this thread sums up what has been irritating me for recent years. Used to be a tight group of folks you'd see regularly, we all knew trail etiquette and respected the areas we rode staying on trail, respecting others and cleaning up after ourselves. Now these wreckless jerks are out there ruining it for the rest of us.
Over the last few years we have had a big group of "I bought my first dirt bike 6 months ago" folks out there thinking that this is the place they can ride like they drive but w/out tickets and moreoever, don't even know how to ride. What is it? Tired of the Harley you've put 800 miles on so let's go dirtin? Maybe it's the fact that quads 'appear' easier to ride - "let's go get a couple of em honey." Got money from the heloc so now we're rich. I don't know, but I completely agree there's a growing issue with these folks. I see idiots riding in the protect preserve in the westwing mountain development all the time. And I see Peoria PD going after them. You don't think the HOA and homeowners aren't going to start making more noise that will spread further out?
The question is, will working with dealers really do anyting. And will folks really read the information packets? Most need mentors. I know this should raise some eyebrows, but how about mandantory training programs before you can get your plates?
mcneildn
11/06/05, 10:34 AM
"I know this should raise some eyebrows, but how about mandantory training programs before you can get your plates?"
While I think it's a great idea in theory, it would be hard to push for something like that, since "being stupid" isn't illegal. If new riders are presented, in a nice and professional way, with all of the tools they need to ride safely, legally, and responsibly - then we cut out the ignorance factor. There will still be some knobs out there, but as I see it now - ignorance is a far worse problem than downright idiots. I'm sure people would JUMP to read a packet that contained designated riding areas, and when meshed with ettiquette and the like - how could they not read it?
;)
billygoat
11/10/05, 7:30 AM
I think some dealers would be receptive to having a 'club guy' come in to the dealership and give a presentation on 'where to ride'. This way, we could give folks our view, while the dealer gets new customers back in the door. The tread lightly message could also be given out as well as other tips for having a good ride. The Tread Lightly training coming up on Dec 6 is geared like this. Anyone going to the training?
drtigirl
11/14/05, 12:26 PM
When is the next club meeting?
Kathie, what club are you looking to join? ATR has club meetings on the second and fourth Thursday of each month. However, due to Thanksgiving, our next meeting won't be until Dec. 8th. You can download a membership form and get directions to the club meeting location from the ATR website:
http://www.arizonatrailriders.org/
Desert Hawk
11/14/05, 8:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by billygoat
I think some dealers would be receptive to having a 'club guy' come in to the dealership and give a presentation on 'where to ride'. This way, we could give folks our view, while the dealer gets new customers back in the door. The tread lightly message could also be given out as well as other tips for having a good ride. The Tread Lightly training coming up on Dec 6 is geared like this. Anyone going to the training?
Just A Thought [:0]
Have the dealer give out the "Intro" packet with club web sites, Then have the clubs set aside one section or the "Introduce" forum to set up some type of presentation and training in the field :)
After all the paper work and stuff people want to ride not hang around
the dealership !
With all the clubs & riding sites in this state it would not take much to get this up and running.
quote:Originally posted by BigDog
After years of listening to the stories Jeff Gursh has from dealing with various land managers and uninformed OHV enthusiasts, one thing has become painfully clear:
Until the dealers step up and start providing information to people who purchases bikes and quads, we're going to continue to do nothing but "put out fires" caused by irresponsible OHVers. We're always reacting to bad behavior. Right now you can walk into a dealer, buy a bike or quad, and walk out the door with no idea where to ride legally, how to ride responsibly, and no idea of clubs or organizations to join.
If we're going to educate our own members, it needs to happen right at the very beginning...when you make a purchase. We need to get the dealers to understand that if they don't help in this matter, pretty soon our riding areas are going to get shut down. When all the fun, scenic, legal places to ride have been shut down, there's less incentive to purchase an OHV.
Every person who purchases a bike or quad should be given a packet that includes information on BLM, State, and Forest Service lands, how and where to get permits, recognized OHV areas, places that offer riding instruction, where to get maps, trail ettiquette, ATV and dirtbike clubs, Blue Ribbon Coalition, AMA, AZOHVC, etc. Who would put this packet together? Probably the new AZOHVC. By the way, are you a member of this organization? Do you know what the AZOHVC is trying to accomplish? If not, look them up or attend one of their General meetings.
Oh well, that's just my .02 worth.
That's a GREAT idea BigDog.
(keep in mind I am new to riding and new to RA)
I am a graphic designer and would be willing to donate my time to help design & layout any brochures, etc. needed.
However, who would approach the dealers to encourage them to educate buyers? There are lots of dealers out there - keep in mind Checker Auto Parts and other places that sell cheaper bikes & quads. If we produce materials and give it to them - if they just put it on the counter what good is that? They really need to be behind this effort. Who would pay to print the materials?
The really sad thing is - why should people have to be told to 'respect the outdoors' and clean up after themselves. Isn't that just common sense?
Riding a cr500 is like driving a Hummer!
Terrorist!
Green Peas and PETA doesn’t approve you can start by getting a respectable trail bike like this.
http://www.ridingarizona.com/forum/uploaded/Walt/200611820579_07tw200e_blue_3_copy_f9351209.jpeg
bgwhtjp33
11/08/06, 9:11 PM
If you want to contact other clubs try this
http://www.azohv.org/index.html
BTW RA is a member of AZOHV(arizona off highway vehicle)
I was thinking about it last night - maybe it would be better to (or do in conjunction with dealers) distribute info through the parts & accessories retailers - like Cycle Gear, Screwie Lewies, etc. Just a thought.
halestrm
11/10/06, 10:52 AM
As a newbie, I sought out info, the problem is, where do you find accurate and good info. I am sure I am not the only newbie who spent hours on the internet trying to find out what was good and bad. I understand taking care of nature but some of the sites out there are crazy.
Why not start with a PDF welcome package on this site and others that people stumble across. Heck, I am still trying to learn the terminalogy, the different land areas, etc. Maybe also team up with the map company on Indian School. They were one of the first places I went so I could find trails. Write to authors of the books re 4x4 and trails (search Amazon). There are idiots out there, I do not deny it, but it is soooo difficult to get good info. Posting to a board can be very intimidating (I was scared I was going to get flamed here because everyone knew what they were doing).
Anywho, my job ends 12/2, so if you need a typist for a welcome package, I would be happy to help!
Just thought I'd pass this on (it was just posted by 'billygoat' in a different thread called 'TRASH').
Keeping a couple of bags in the truck all the time is the way to be prepared. Let this idea spread like a good virus!
Btw, the idea for dealer packets was successfully pitched by Jeff Gursh to the AZ State Parks OHV coordinator. State Parks will be funding a 1yr trial with selected dealers to see how such an information program is received and if deemed successful may continue. AZ State Parks is trying to hire a new staff person to take this project and a couple others into action. Deadline to apply ends Dec 11.
Let's be real just for a second.. I ripped up my own back yard with a quad in less than two minutes. Taking a quad through the desert is like driving a four wheeled "Blender". The "Grennies" know this. They'er not stupid. WE can only ride in places nobody cares about. And I'm fine with that. If we bring extra attention to our selves by going to local gov and say "we care" we hang our selves by bringing unwanted attention to the subject. Some times the best statagy in a battle is... do nothing.
I bought my quad at Arizona Honda in Tucson here. They had an incentive program that if you took there Tread Lightly class then they would give you $100.00. The class was great and i learned a lot of stuff. I think if more dealers had programs like this then it would help out a lot.
When i mentioned to a friend of mine who lives in NC that i was buying a quad he laughed and said that all the people he ever knew that rode quads were Bubba's. I always think about all the Bubba's i see when i go riding. LOL are you a Bubba?
Listen... just because I have a beer belly, wear an Earnhardt Jr. Shirt and hang out by the stage yelling "FREE BIRD!" don't mean I'm a .... Never mind, you win.
I don't think you get it. The greenies care about every place. They want to shut down every place. If we do nothing, we will have nothing.quote:Originally posted by Jaguar
Let's be real just for a second.. I ripped up my own back yard with a quad in less than two minutes. Taking a quad through the desert is like driving a four wheeled "Blender". The "Grennies" know this. They'er not stupid. WE can only ride in places nobody cares about. And I'm fine with that. If we bring extra attention to our selves by going to local gov and say "we care" we hang our selves by bringing unwanted attention to the subject. Some times the best statagy in a battle is... do nothing.
N2Trails
04/01/07, 9:08 AM
I remember when the Hell's Angels and other motorcycle groups got a bad rap from the public they started doing charity rides like the "Toys for Tots" rides. In my opinion it would say a lot about who we are as a group if we had our picture in the newspaper showing us handing out toys to kids with our quads in the background.
PappaSmurf
08/14/07, 9:06 AM
The question is, will working with dealers really do anyting. And will folks really read the information packets? Most need mentors. I know this should raise some eyebrows, but how about mandantory training programs before you can get your plates?
[/quote]
That is, unfortunately what may have to happen. Maybe have someone sign off as the "mentor" before the plates/stickers can be issued. It's not hard in this group to find a riding buddy. Heck just say, "I'm going to Payson this weekend, who wants to go?" and you have plenty ... at least one anyway who could sign as a mentor for a trip. The same goes for protecting our right to bear arms. Wether you shoot or not it is a right that should be preserved. I really like the idea of the "new owner packets" Maybe even make them available for sale at World of Maps or the ranger's station for the cost of production. I would like one myself. Maybe the USFS could help too with the cost or at least distribution. Maybe AZOHVC could help. They have several resources and more funds than RA does. Education is the key though, educating dealers as well as owners about how our areas are endangered ... hey how about finding some kind of endangered animal that relies on OHV's overturning the soil (in designated riding areas of course [;-D]) for their subsistence ... that would be great!!
Anyway, cleaning up and getting articles about the good we do are both important, but, as has been mentioned, if we keep just putting out fires we'll never get ahead.