permit for trails in apache junction [Archive]

vpihlman

09/05/03, 5:17 AM

It is true that all you used to need was a state trust land permit, however, if you contact blm you will find out that the areas in apache junctin - from meridian out to highway 60 have been closed by the state land departement -
I received by mail a map of the state land that is closed in Apache Junction - it is called closure order no 356-02/03. As of June 17, 2003 - 35832.96 acres closed in Pinal county from Meridian to Highway 60 - from Baseline South to Pecos. Then from Pecos south to Roberts in a narrow ribbon on both sides of the water retention canal. The area that is open is from Kings ranch road along highway 60 about mile marker 204 south to Roberts but only as far west as King Ranch road - not that you can tell where that is in the middle of the desert - I suppose they are putting up new fences - the reason they site as closure is dust control. I have an email in to judy woods asking how to appeal the decision - this is the area accessible from my house and greatly used by my son and his buddies - with the blessing of the sherrifs in this area - i will keep you posted. Anybody know anything about the appeal process - is there one?
This is very upsetting and I am looking into what can be done and how it can be changed.
For more info contact:
AZ PLIC @BLM.gov - this is who sent the map to me
or
jwood@lnd.state.az.us - this is who I am waiting for a reply from

CRAZY CRF 230

vpihlman

09/05/03, 5:36 AM

That should be AZ_PLIC@BLM.Gov
There is a _ between the z and the p
CRAZY CRF 230

Smoke

09/05/03, 12:38 PM

vpihlman

I want to thank you for the information, the area that concerns me it the meridaina area i ride there two to three times a week. The area is not posted as a closed riding area. All the State Trust land signs are still up. Thank you for the information i guess i will have to look for a new area to go for quick local rides. Who do i need to cantact about a map and what is the cost. I obviously need one. Me and friends are bummed now

Thank you again for the information

IT'S ALL MINE

2003 Polaris Predator

vpihlman

09/05/03, 1:53 PM

I am actually more than bummed and do not intend to just sit by while they close all these areas - Please - email the above links and ask them about this area - the map i received was from the blm address and they sent it out free. Please - ask them how we can appeal there decision, and how was the decision made. Lets see what we can do!!

CRAZY CRF 230

Silver 400EX

09/08/03, 5:57 PM

The area which you guys are refering to is very much open. I ride there at least 2 or 3 times per week and have talked to both the apache junction police and the pinal county sherrifs. If you have your permit you are allowed to there.

Scotty

02 400EX silver plastics,custom seat,white bro's exhaust,white bro's rev kit,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, Dg fat nerfs,all shaved plastics
02 blaster toomey B1 exhaust, jet kit, Dg fat nerfs, custom seat,billet headlights,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, all shaved plastics

vpihlman

09/08/03, 6:39 PM

The BLM has not had the man power to put up the closed signs as of yet. The environmental specialist called me today - the area is closed because of a Pinal County Air Quality Closure. Fortunately for us, the law enforcement does not seem to be aware of the closure, however, when they become aware, they are able to fine you $500, even with the permit. The man at blm is bcampbel@lnd.state.az.us. Please - everyone email him and ask him questions. His phone number is 602-542-2578, he is a very nice man, but couldnt give me the answers i hoped for. He says he knows of no appeal process because they are closing it because the State Land Commissioner has been told they have to because of air quality (dust). He also said he has never heard of a closed area reopening. The problem really is the riders who ride so close to the road and to homes - The pinal county ordinance is "no dust more than 12 inches high 1/4 mile from roads or homes". I asked why we all had to be punished (we ride about 2 miles inside the 35,000 acres) when only a few could be sited - he said - no man power to enforce a partial closure , so , it all is closed except - MP207. Anyway - it is all very irritating. If you know a way we can change it - let me know.

CRAZY CRF 230

Silver 400EX

09/08/03, 9:54 PM

Well I will continue to ride there until the sings saying it is closed are up.

Scotty

02 400EX silver plastics,custom seat,white bro's exhaust,white bro's rev kit,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, Dg fat nerfs,all shaved plastics
02 blaster toomey B1 exhaust, jet kit, Dg fat nerfs, custom seat,billet headlights,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, all shaved plastics

Silver 400EX

09/08/03, 9:56 PM

Silver 400EX

09/08/03, 9:59 PM

Besides i have ran into the pinal county sherrif on a few occasions including the time i was riding at Gold canyon and it was closed. i just didnt see the sign he told me he thought it was BS to that the place was closed. He nicely asked me leave as soon as i had my things loaded up and NEVER mentioned one thing about a TICKET. Bottom line is the Pinal County Sherrifs are pretty cool.

Scotty

02 400EX silver plastics,custom seat,white bro's exhaust,white bro's rev kit,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, Dg fat nerfs,all shaved plastics
02 blaster toomey B1 exhaust, jet kit, Dg fat nerfs, custom seat,billet headlights,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, all shaved plastics

vpihlman

09/09/03, 5:18 PM

Scotty - I completely agree with you and have received the same answers from the sherrifs. I just want you guys to know what is going on - BLM people are not being so understanding. I was hoping there was something we could do - maybe you have a way to talk to them. I only received a map of closures - non of the open area he is speaking of since I guess that is not ready yet. Here is the reply I got today:
As Bruce's supervisor, I feel compelled to reply to your inquiry.

First of all, we do not arbitrarily close land without good reason. In this instance, to address a number of problems, we, along with 13 other agencies and organizations entered into an agreement to create the Desert Wells Multi-Use Area on 87,106.12 acres of State Trust land south of Apache Junction. Out of this area, 35,832.96 acres were closed to motorized vehicles and the remaining 51,273.16 acres have had trails identified and signed for the benefit of motorized recreationists. Maps of the trail system should be available by the end of the month.

This effort is in response to numerous complaints arising from the irresponsible actions of some off highway vehicle operators who don't have enough sense to know that other people may not like their dust and noise, or subscribe to the idea that cross country riding is somehow an acceptable practice.

To provide for off highway vehicle recreational opportunities, and to minimize the negative aspects of this sport, we worked with Arizona Game & Fish, Pinal County, City of Apache Junction, Maricopa County Flood Control, Arizona Cattle Growers Association, Arizona State Association of 4-Wheel Drive Clubs, Arizona ATV Riders, Arizona Trail Riders, Chandler Rod and Gun Club, and others. Thru this cooperative effort we hope to better control the off highway vehicle impacts while providing a large area for the sport.

With the assistance of various law enforcement agencies involved, citations will be issued to those individuals who still refuse to abide by the law. A total closure to motorized recreational vehicles is easier to enforce than some selective closure. If you are in the NO MOTORIZED VEHICLE CLOSURE AREA in a motorized vehicle, you are trespassing, pure and simple.

As areas grow and new housing tracts are built, motorized recreation will have to adjust by being more considerate and having to move farther away to find appropriate areas. There will undoubtedly be additional closures around the developing urban areas, learn to accept it or find another outdoor recreational pursuit.

Also keep in mind, that to recreate on State Trust land requires that you obtain a Recreation Permit from this Agency - $15 per individual, or $20 for a family permit.

Chuck Hudson, Manager
Environmental Resources & Trespass Section
Arizona State Land Department
1616 West Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007
602-542-2657
(FAX 602-542-3507)
chudson@lnd.state.az.us

>>> Bruce Campbell 09/09/03 07:08AM >>>

CRAZY CRF 230

Smoke

09/09/03, 7:47 PM

Scotty you going to be out there this weekend? I will see you around then
as an after though i was in the state trust land office about two months ago. while in there i ran into a really nice guy who needs to get out more but who makes all the maps for the organization. I was told at that time the area where we ride now (scotty) was to be adjusted. the area that is through the closed gate over the canal was the area to me mapped out and turned into the trails. i dont know if this was changed due to the housing but my impression of what was said was the area at the end of meridian was to be a stageing area like at four peaks.

how much of this is true i cant even guess. if they close it all together and post it so it is illegal then i will stop riding the area.

i dont really think this will ever happen in this area due to the location of all the housing.

It is only trespassing if you were to ride the area while it is posted as a no motor vehicle. the present postings in the area all state that the area is open to riding whith the state trust land permit

Now 201 i believe is already posted no motorvehicles
IT'S ALL MINE

2003 Polaris Predator

Silver 400EX

09/09/03, 8:09 PM

If it posted as closed then i will not be riding there but until it is posted i am there! I might not be riding this weekend though SMOKE. I had a pretty bad accident last weekend. my bike needs all types of new parts and my body is pretty messed up to. No broken bones but ruptured some blood vessels in my foot and have some really bad road rash. i ordered all the parts and am havin them 2 day aired so hopefully i can have the bike together for Sunday if i can even ride. My other bike (Blaster) Is in the shop getting some new stuff and wont be out for like another week yet.

Scotty

02 400EX silver plastics,custom seat,white bro's exhaust,white bro's rev kit,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, Dg fat nerfs,all shaved plastics
02 blaster toomey B1 exhaust, jet kit, Dg fat nerfs, custom seat,billet headlights,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, all shaved plastics

Smoke

09/10/03, 1:17 PM

Scotty
Sorry to hear about you getting all tore up hope your feeling better and will see you out there soom I am sure
Later
Ron

IT'S ALL MINE

2003 Polaris Predator

Lakota Sport Rider

09/12/03, 10:14 PM

Is the Meridian & Baseline area closed? Or can we RIDE" legally that is? Went out to u.s. 60 and I past 204 ( it was dark ) so I drove out to 207 and there were these old guys in a mini van as it seemed that they were putting a lock on the gate and I pulled up and they told me pretty much the area is now closed, I can't believe this, seems you can't ride anywhere, and I just got my quad too, well at least Iam going camping in a couple weeks up on the RIM, my RV plate license will be in the mail by next week, can't wait to get out of the valley for a while. Jeff

2001 Kawasaki Lakota Sport
Ford F-250 4x4 Diesel Truck

"Getting Dirty"

"

time machine

09/13/03, 6:27 AM

I know this post goes against the overwhelming sentiment, but, As I read all of the complaints about certain areas being closed under the pretense of dust control, I can't help but feel that ohv riders, not government, are probably MOST to blame....

I have ridden 201 a lot, someone, probably a concerned OHV'er, posted a hand written sign on the gate LAST YEAR, asking riders to:

"PLEASE NOT TO PARK OR RIDE WITHIN A 1/4 MILE OF U.S.60...BECAUSE OF COMPLAINTS OF DUST ACROSS THE FREEWAY- IF COMPLAINTS PERSIST, WE MAY LOSE OUR ACCESS"

I am sure that anyone smart enough to open the gate, could easily read & unnderstand the plea, however countless riders presumably reading the sign chose to completely ignore it!...
trucks and trailers parked, and more importantly riders rode within 10 feet of the highway, sending a ton of un-necessary dust and noise across the highway, and onto the trailer park residents to the immediate East,(I suspect those folks were the main sorce of complaints)

Now after selfishly ignoring the warnings, these same riders will no doubt feel that they are being picked on by big brother. Obviously, we need more sites like this one to educate and school riders to consider the impact of where they ride.

PS. Jeff, be careful where you ride in the high country with the RV plate...I got a ticket up at Green's Peak for being on a F.S. road where the number was posted horizontally, RV plate is only for ownership, so far as F.S. road access goes you can leagally ride any unmarked trail, or those marked with the number sign shown VERTICALLY.
The ranger told us that those marked with horizontal signs usually carry heavier car/truck traffic, so any bikes need to be street legal to safely compete with those vehicles on the same road...Probably a liability issue, some quad or dirt bike probably collided with a truck and then sued the forest service for maintaining an unsafe road?
At any rate they seem to be watching for non street legal bikes,it is easy too, they don't need to look at your plate, the missing rear view mirror is a daed give away...T/M

<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>
John= Yam. Raptor 660-R
Leslie= Yam. Raptor 660-R
<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

Silver 400EX

09/13/03, 8:33 AM

I agree with you about Gold Canyon. The sign was posted and to ride back further on the property and yet i saw riders 10-15 feet from the fence alond the 60. i use to ride this area every weekend until it was closed.

On the other hand the Ironwood area which i ride now 2-3 times per week. The residents in housing developement along meridian which i believe to be the cause of this property get closed. Residents in that developement were told before thy purchased property in the developemnt that the propert which we ride is used for quading and dirt bking, along with hunting. So residents of the developemnet which knew what they were getting into now are the ones trying close this area down.

I spoke with a resident that lives in that development and told me that he was told what proprty between meridian and ironwood was used for and that was the reason he moved into the neighborhood. On the other hand he told me that his neiighbor which does not ride quads or dirt bikes calls the police every day when the riding starts.

Areas for us to ride are just going to keep being closed, it is unavoidable.

Scotty

02 400EX silver plastics,custom seat,white bro's exhaust,white bro's rev kit,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, Dg fat nerfs,all shaved plastics
02 blaster toomey B1 exhaust, jet kit, Dg fat nerfs, custom seat,billet headlights,jet kit,douglas chrome wheels, all shaved plastics

vpihlman

09/13/03, 3:43 PM

The 204 and the 207 are open and are supposed to stay open - lets just follow the signs posted. Happy Riding!

CRAZY CRF 230

Smoke

09/13/03, 8:04 PM

I have to also agree with Timemachine and scott about the situation about the dust control. The only problem with educating young riders to proper edicate is the fact they are not the ones out looking for the web sites to learn more. (For the most part.) They are the ones that give the ohv community a bad name cutting fences Gates locks and or just flat out ignoring signs. Last time I was out towards 201 I knew it was closed i watched two trucks with bikes pull into the area in plain sight of the sign. You know the people who live around there will also notice it Complain (as they should) and then we will be forced farther down the road. 204 will turn into 210 then 215 and so on.

after all that i dont think i really had a point so i will just shut up

i will just miss the close proximity of ironwood

Need dirt please help
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

vpihlman

09/14/03, 6:27 PM

Actually, I have seen more Daddys doing the no nos than I have teenagers. :) I also saw a truck with quads pulling out of the 201 yesterday - we really need to encourage each other to obey the signs - even though they really dont make a lot of sense. If anyone knows a way to get the blm to consider changing the 201 to be like the 207 - pleeeaassseee let me know. It seems to me that all of that area could be like the 207 - having a sign that says no stopping proceed to trail head and then have the trail head and staging area at least 1/4 mile from the road. Then the sheriffs can site the idiots that dont obey it and leave the rest of us to ride in peace. I hate not having the 201 - it is awesome riding for these teenagers!!
I hope they will reconsider your area around ironwood also - part of that is close to homes, but a lot of it isnt and seems like it could be open. You think if i complain about the noisy freeway they will close it for me.?? :)

CRAZY CRF 230

Toybreaker

09/15/03, 5:04 PM

Well it is nice to hear that there are some areas near the "city" that are open to OHV. Like my get to know me post said i am stationed in San Diego and won't get to come home except on long weekends or leave periods so the next time i will be home is Xmas time. I am going to send off for that map.
How long are the permits good for? Calendar year?
Also all the riding i have done is in sand do i need more gear than just a helmet and gloves there?
Oh is there a bike shop/salvage yard around the valley somewhere?
Been looking at inlandatv.com cause it is an hour drive from the ship but prices of bikes and parts are cheaper in Az than here.

thanks for any answers you all can give me
'87 lt250r Me
'85 lt250r Wife

Smoke

09/15/03, 7:37 PM

As far as more gear goes I ride with helmet and gloves. IF riding with 2 wheelers with you a chest protector would be nice rocks hurt.

Alot of people on this site are extremily knowledgeable about places to pick up parts. I know there are some used dealers in the phoenix area.

be safe and hope to see you when you get back to AZ

Need dirt please help
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

billygoat

09/15/03, 8:56 PM

Hi guys,

The Desert Wells area (the new name for 204) is all State Trust Land(managed by AZ State Land Dept). Bureau of Land Management is a federal agency and (BLM) has no jurisdiction there. The only reason the PLIC(BLM run) is involved is because they are the interagency clearing house for maps and brochures and other info.

If you are interested in knowing who owns what land, buy a map from the PLIC with "land ownership status" as the back drop. The rules are somewhat different on different agency land. The easiest way to learn the rules is to call the land agency and ask.

goat.

punker70

10/06/03, 7:27 PM

As of Saturday October 4, Ironwood is closed. The signs are up that read "NO MOTOR VEHICLES" and all the openings are barbed up. Anybody know any other east valley riding spots with some "terrain?" Please let me know, I rode there almost every day

Smoke

10/06/03, 7:40 PM

Punker that makes 2 of us that were in the area all the time. Actually some of the others on this site were there quite a bit two. They posted the Ironwood side but the meridian side is still open and unposted with the no motorized vehicles. There were people out there today when i went by. Just a matter of time but the official signs are marked on the ironwood side.

"Need dirt please help"
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

punker70

10/06/03, 7:52 PM

If I go in on the Meridian side Im breaking the law still, Aren't I? What if I'm spotted on the Ironwood side but I legitimately came in on the Meridian side? I just want a nice after work riding spot. I can go almost anywhere on the weekend. Can you also explain where to go in 204-207? When I see a fence I don't mess with it.

"This is my element"

billygoat

10/06/03, 7:53 PM

If you want to get involved email Sandee at mccullen@cableaz.com

She is the contact for the ASA4WDC (AZ State Assoc of 4wd clubs) on this project, a partner in keeping the 51,000 acres open. Chuck Hudson (ASLD) listed the other organizations involved. I think there are 17 total consisting of OHVers, ranchers, game and fish, county, city etc. When it comes to your riding area, don't leave it to someone else to manage...get involved!

punker70

10/06/03, 8:05 PM

Also, has anybody heard anything about Needle Rock? I heard today that it might be closing.

03 Black/Red Raptor DMC Alien pipe, T2 bars, K&N filter......more to come

Smoke

10/06/03, 8:11 PM

Legally

YES entering the meridian side knowing the area is closed is trespassing. As far as the gates at 204/207 go you are probably better off going to 207 just get out open the gate druve through and close it behicnd you. About a 1/4 mile in is a staging point enough distance off the road so your vehicle cant be seen from the road and not as much dust.

I believe you can get to 204 from the 207 area. i have not had alot of time to get out there and explore. I guess i will now.

Sure to see you around.

"Need dirt please help"
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

billygoat

10/06/03, 8:26 PM

Needle Rock on the Verde River? This area has been trashed out for years. The verde is a wild and scenic river and management of these type areas usually include keeping people from trampling the vegetation on the bank and driving through the river. Call the Cave Creek Ranger District and ask if you really want to know. If you don't understand the answer they give you, ask more questions.

Smoke

10/07/03, 10:50 AM

Here is an email I recieved hope this helps to explain some things in the east valley.

No Ron, I am not involved in trying to keep this area open............ in fact, if this area continues to be abused and the closed signs ignored ALL areas will be closed to OHV recreation. This area has been closed due to EPA requirements which takes it out of the hands of the State Land Dept., Pinal County or Apache Junction.

The area west of Ironwood to Meridian and south from Baseline to the motorsports track near Elliott is closed to ALL motorized, as is the east side of Ironwood from Hwy 60 south along the CAP Canal to Ocotillo. This area extends east to Kings Ranch Road. This encompasses approximately 33,000 acres................ BUT there is 86,000 acres of open area with approximately 200 miles of all level and all kinds of trails and riding areas east of Kings Ranch Road to Hwy 79. The borders of this area are: Hwy 60 on the north; A line along Kings Ranch Road south to Skyline on the west; Hwy 79 on the east and Arizona Farms Rd on the south.

There is an information kiosk at M.P. 207 entrance off Hwy 60; there is one just south of M.P. 149 off Hwy 79 and there is one about 2 miles east of Ironwood on Skyline Rd. There are also 9 other gates as entrances to this riding area. The kiosks will contain maps depicting the numbered routes in the area. There will be signs at the entrance gates soon. We are still trying to complete this project. The sign posts are all up designating which trails can be used but the numbers are not all on yet. There are very few trails closed within this 86,000 acres and those are the roads to the ranchers corrals or big water tanks. This riding area was the result of a partnership with the OHV community (ATV riders, ATR Riders and 4x4's); the County of Pinal; Game & Fish; Az State Land Dept. and the ranchers in the area.

Most of this resulted from the problems and land devistation at M.P. 201 in Gold Canyon, the moonscape along the canal and the area being used west of Ironwood. Actually the area west of Ironwood has been closed to motorized for two years.................... the east side was just recently closed.

This partnership came from a large number of OHV recreationists SCREAMING about the many closures........................ the agencies would call me and ask me "what to do with the OHV's". My ONLY answer was: If you have to close an area due to urban sprawl or EPA limits GIVE THEM ANOTHER PLACE TO RIDE.

This is beginning but without compliance from the OHV community we will lose it all..........................All this area is State Trust Land and they have the right to close ALL for any reason they so chose. These lands are NOT PUBLIC as many people feel. Entrance to State Trust Lands require a recreation permit of which most recreationists that are riding this specific area do not have the permit............

I HATE being pushed out as much as the next guy but if we don't bend and partnership with the land management agencies we'll be the ones to lose...............

We hope to have flyers available by November 1 to distribute along Ironwood and at ET Motorsports showing the riding area and giving directions to "Desert Wells Multi-Use Recreation Area".

Hopefully we can get our fellow OHV recreationist to join in because now that this area has been closed by the EPA law enforcement can issue citations as high as $50,000.00............................ a couple of years ago the same issues arose in the west valley and law enforcement issued $2500.00 citations and every one of them were upheld in the courts. I truly hope this doesn't happen in the east valley................ they weren't given a quality riding area to replace the closure........ we have been. In fact there are 60,000 acres of State Trust Lands east of Hwy 79 that we are also working in partnership with the State Land Dept and the National Guard to sign and develop in the

vpihlman

10/07/03, 3:02 PM

Hey - Let me know if they need help handing out the flyers - I am able and willing - my son can help distribute them to the riders at Apache Junction High School as well.
Thanks for the info

CRAZY CRF 230 F- Vince
Not so Crazy CRF230F - Jeff
Baby Bike XR80 - Vicky

quadrider

10/07/03, 11:28 PM

I would like to add my thoughts to the Ironwood closure and to the email that Smoke just posted. I have been in contact with a number of you privately about this situation.

Because of the Ironwood closure and looking for a "new" place to ride, on the recommendation of several people, last Sunday my son and I went to look at(and)ride the 204 & 207 with quads.

What a complete disappointment this area was to us (or)we did not find the "right" area to ride. We also witnessed others (with bikes)who seemed as bewildered as we were, as this area seems to have no obvious trails and basically looked unsuitable to ride on (obstacles in every direction). It was also full of people shooting guns everywhere.

I hate to appear "ungrateful" that the powers to be have graciously allowed us to ride the 204/207 area, but what good is it with no defined trails(or, open areas to develop trails)with bullets and buckshot flying all over the place?

I realize that Ironwood probably looked like this at one time too, until enough usage over-time developed some decent riding trails, etc. Perhaps I expect too much, but I cannot see this is anyplace that I would want to ride (at this time). So, basically (in my opinion) we've been "screwed" out of a decent place to ride because of politacally motavated B.S. that will also "someday" take away the 204/207 much like they took away the 201.

I feel fortunate that my son and I are able to ride the dunes because as it appears our days of having any decent areas to ride in this vicinity are coming to an abrupt end.

I would think that the bike dealers are the ones that better get involved in this situation "quick" because with no place to ride what good is a bike or quad? And, if any of you have talked to the dealer's lately they will tell you that sales on "new" units are terrible other than a "couple" of popular models.

With the "limited" riding areas and all of the restrictions I can't image why a person "looking" to buy a bike for the first time would?

Sorry for the doom and gloom but I think we are in trouble.....

quadrider

Lakota Sport Rider

10/08/03, 9:51 AM

Well that sucks quadrider, I was heading there this Saturday morning with my Lakota Sport for the first time at MM207(gets out of shop on Friday) to do some riding I live only 5 miles from there, and I was gonna bring the wife and boy with me and have well you know a family outing " Not now" people shooting everywhere is not where I want to bring the family, I may go myself and quad to check it out, I will drive my truck all over that place to see whats happening, and check out the riding area, Can you drive a truck all in there or do you have to stop at the staging area and ride your ATV in there? A guy here username is dirtdad said he took his boys there and they had a blast said trails all over the desert floor, could you have been at the wrong place or wrong mile marker, because I do know the gate for 207 is right before the MM not at it or beyond it, I do know that this place will be closed in a few years because a new freeway is coming right through there, my friend works at the planning and zoning and he showed me the plans for it and it goes right through the riding area at 204&207 this suppose to take place in 3 years, so we are screwed time to start thinking about moving huh? Arizona all this open area and so little places to legally ride what a joke and Iam disgusted, Shoot maybe I should sell my bike now!!!!!! I dont want to but I bought it because of where I live and 204--207 is right down the 60 from me right around the corner, wish I still lived up north, the Valley is starting to "REEK" or I believe it always has!!! Man this has got me so upset I was looking to ride Saturday and not having to drive to far either. Yes quadrider we are in trouble bro, I feel it's just the beginning though. Iam going out there Saturday morning, I drive a white Ford F-250 with my Blue Kawasaki in the back bed, anyone else going and you see me flag me down, Iam going to check this place out, I have never been out there yet. Jeff

2001 Kawasaki Lakota Sport
Ford F-250 4x4 Diesel Truck
2 Brindle Boxers

"Getting Dirty"

"

Smoke

10/08/03, 11:09 AM

Quadrider I know your feelings
I am going to be out at 204/207 this weekend to do some riding and exploring and trail making if necessary. Hell if it comes down to it trail mapping and designing. I want places to ride if they are going to let me ride the area I AM RIDING IT. I loved the ironwood area for the closeness and the terrain.

Me and my wife will be out there this weekend to hang out ride and just enjoy the valley cooling down. Every riding area has to start somewhere.

The shooting thing bothers me but i also know that the staging area is quite away form the shooting areas. Is it still Dove season (I am not a hunter) or was it just recreational shooting going on?

This area is not that far from where I live so it wont be to inconvientent (Power & 60) If I can find decent riding probably will go back out there on sunday as well.

need to hook up and explore one of these days

"Need dirt please help"
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

punker70

10/08/03, 2:01 PM

I too will be there just to check it out for the first time, I really hope it's not a disappointment. Hope to see you all there.

03 Black/Red Raptor DMC Alien pipe, T2 bars, K&N filter......more to come

quadrider

10/08/03, 4:02 PM

This is what I recall seeing at the 204 & 207 as we looked at both locations last Sunday Morning. First, we did not ride either area based on the info in my previous post. We simply went through the gates at both locations and drove to the staging areas and looked around and left.

At the 204 there is a dirt "rough" roadway that went back to a small staging area. We saw no defined trails and the entire area appeared to be the "normal" desert growth (lots of cactus)and lots of gunshots.

We then went to the 207. The entrance past the gate has a huge "dropoff". Driving back to the staging area looked the same as the 204 area. The staging area is larger than the 204 and the only trail that we could see out of here appeared to be at the "left" side of the trailhead. Again, lots of cactus.

The shooting that we heard appeared to be fairly close and I believe it was target or clay pigeon shooting.

As I said in the earlier post, perhaps we missed the "real" trail area, but this appeared to be "raw" desert land that has seen very little "off-road" vehicle use. As Smoke said all areas have to start somewhere so this could be a "fresh-start".

I talked to a person today that I know at one of the bike stores. He said many people have come in just to tell them that Ironwood is closed and they have received many calls about the closing. All are wanting to know where to ride now?

quadrider

Smoke

10/08/03, 7:45 PM

Quadracer

Hey when i did get a chance to cruise around the one time i was out there htere were some places to jump but alot of flat ground to. Found some jeep trails and there is a power line rd back there. I am also thinking that area is suppose to go all the way down the 79 so that means the large wash that is crossed over on th e60 shuld be around there too.l

Im not sure i will get a lot of exploring done this weekend because i will have my wife and son out with me but i know i will get some.

"Need dirt please help"
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

billygoat

10/08/03, 8:58 PM

Chuck Hudson from the state land department says the brochure with the map will be available at the end of the month. One of you guys said you would map the area. It has already been done as part of the agreement to sign the area.

There are designated trail signs throughout the area. They are supposed to have numbers on them as well, but not enough volunteers stepped forward to finish it. Perhaps you guys could contact your local dealers (as someone said it is THEIR responsibility) and make some noise. Be prepared to roll your sleeves up too.

The reasons some of you cite for liking Ironwood are the very reasons the area is closed. Loss of vegetation(open areas), soil that dusts excessively, extreme MXers digging up cattle tank berms to make jumps. These are just a couple of reasons all this was done. Don't be mad at me. I just tell it like it is.

Stay on trails, respect your riding area and the other land users (ie ranchers, C.A.P etc). If you don't want to stay on trails, then buy a piece of land and do as you please. The state land department has no "recreation department", they are interested in land value and making $$ for the state. When we deveg the land, they say it's worth less. Hard to believe when they will doze it anyway, but that's what they say.

EPA rules the roost. When they say PM-10 dust and fugitive dust, the agencies run in fear because of big fines (your tax dollars pay those fines). We suffer the consequences of "back east" laws. I know this stinks and we have a long way to go.

vpihlman

10/09/03, 5:56 AM

We were at the 207 last weekend - we go in the late afternoon - no guns then - it is very flat and great for children and beginners. You can also ride for a long way, but, we do mourn the loss of 201 - we have seen nothing close to what the teenagers loved there. We did drive further out and look at the box canyon area - that looks more interesting, however, i know that area gets very crowded as it gets cooler out. That is the problem - more riders than ever and less places to ride than ever. I agree that the dealers should get involved - they speak the same language - $$$$. Anyway - if you find something we can do about it - let me know - and our family is willing to help in the work as well.

CRAZY CRF 230 F- Vince
Not so Crazy CRF230F - Jeff
Baby Bike XR80 - Vicky

billygoat

10/09/03, 8:27 PM

Vpihlman - You can help. Everyone can help! Sandee (mccullen@cableaz.com) has the numbers to finish the sign numbering, but it is labor intensive. She would have the map with the trail numbers. It's important to get the signs numbered as soon as the brochures are available so people stay on trails and keep this area nice. Not devegetated, silty and trashed up like 201.

This is a good time of year to do this, not like Granite Mtn in Scottsdale, which was completed in July(!!!). Both projects were started at the same time, just before the state land department eliminated the OHV coordinator position. (There has to be legislative pressure on the land dept for things to change.) I think the idea is that if urban fringe riding areas work, then there is a chance at keeping some "close by" riding. Noise and dust are still the big stinkers, though. Ideas on fixing this one??

vpihlman

10/10/03, 5:18 AM

Okay - emailed Sandie right now. Noise and Dust should be no problem if the staging area is obeyed and people do not park by the highway - there is noone out there to bother. That is what I dont understand about the 201 - so - close the first 1/4 mile by the highway - right tickets and fine the people who dont obey and let the rest of us ride where we were - about 5 miles in from any type of highway or residence. Something else is up with that area, I just dont know what. Anyway - when Sandie emails me with a plan of work, i will sure let everyone know!! Thanks billygoat for the info.

CRAZY CRF 230 F- Vince
Not so Crazy CRF230F - Jeff
Baby Bike XR80 - Vicky

Lakota Sport Rider

10/10/03, 3:26 PM

Was at the 207 today, and found lots of trails, especially the power line trail, that trail took me all the to 79 and through a wash, dont know about the cactus they were few and far between, the way one person was describing 207 was that it was over ran with cactus, there was hardly any,a few places to jump, berms to ride high and throttle out and roost, lots of fun,even found some sand to play in, dont know about being "bewildered"!! My friend you were in the wrong PLACE, it was my first time there and I had no problems finding my way around 207 at all and was there for 4 hours all by myself no was there until I was pulling out a truck with some dirt bikes was heading in. I will be back out there again, I had a blast........Jeff

2001 Kawasaki Lakota Sport
Ford F-250 4x4 Diesel Truck
2 Brindle Boxers

"Getting Dirty"

"

punker70

10/10/03, 7:13 PM

Sounds awesome Lakota sport, I'll defenitely be out there tomorrow. Look for the beige Chevy Silverado. RIDE ON

03 Black/Red Raptor DMC Alien pipe, T2 bars, K&N filter......more to come

Smoke

10/10/03, 8:08 PM

Good to hear you liked the area. Sounds like i might not hate it as much as i thought. Just still in morning over the loss of the last area. I will be out there tomorroww to check it out.

"Need dirt please help"
Ron
2003 Polaris Predator

quadrider

10/10/03, 8:29 PM

In response to Lakota Sport Rider's observations of how much fun he had riding the 207 and the comments I made in reference to a previous post as to what the area looked like "as we were looking out the cab of a truck".

I was also taking into consideration as to what we had been told by others that had ridden the 207 and the fact that a friend of our's had hit a cactus "head-on" that same week at the 207.

I was simply commenting on the views from the cab of a vehicle as we drove through the area. To clarify, I did say that "we did not ride the area".

Based on Lakota's comments I need to apologize for relaying miss- leading information and I am glad to hear how much fun he had and look forward to now riding the 207.

I humbly apologize and give-way to Lakota's insightfull evaluation of the 207.

vpihlman

10/11/03, 7:47 AM

Me tooo - We were able to explore the 207 area a little bit yesterday - it really has potential - lots of terrain changes, and i think you can go south forever. Dont let the blah look of the staging area stop you - go on and explore. We crossed a couple of big sand washes that you sand people should love!! I plan on spending quite a bit of time out there exploring. Maybe when it is ready to completely sign we can have a big ride/work/food day??

CRAZY CRF 230 F- Vince
Not so Crazy CRF230F - Jeff
Baby Bike XR80 - Vicky

vpihlman

10/11/03, 7:54 AM

Lakota Sport - the dirt bikes you saw 10/10 were probably us - White Ford 150 with a trailer and 3 bikes - man - i wanted to stop and introduce ourselves but the boys were anxious to ride - i agree the area was great!!

CRAZY CRF 230 F- Vince
Not so Crazy CRF230F - Jeff
Baby Bike XR80 - Vicky

billygoat

10/11/03, 8:31 AM

So Vpihlman,
Sounds like you've arranged to get the decals? If you need an example of what the signs should look like, go riding at Granite Mtn in Scottsdale. The funny thing is the G.M. area has complete signage, but no map. Just the opposite situation of Desert Wells (assuming State Lands makes good on their October brochure/sign delivery). It's soooo nice to be able to plan a route, not get lost and come back to the truck for a Coke...and do it again. I'm spoiled with G.M now.

corljones

10/11/03, 9:59 AM

Hello everyone, I have been reading everyone’s posts about the closure of Ironwood. I would take my two boys out and ride there abt once a week; I am really disappointed it’s now closed. Thanks for the info on 207, I live in Chandler-how much further is the 207 from Ironwood? I don't want to give up on Ironwood though, if we bombard the BLM with email they might reconsider. Remember majority rules.

Hope to meet all of you, I ride an ATK 260LQ should not be hard to spot me, I think its the only one around.

Lakota Sport Rider

10/12/03, 6:52 AM

I have never been to Ironwood ( bummed that it closed), I just got the quad and a permit not long ago, and Friday was my first time there at 207, I was happy just to be able to ride ( still learning the quad ) just a beginner here, and just enjoying the freedom, I just cruise, the quad has a 300cc, but just a trail quad. Everything I had said was my opinion from I saw there. My appologies to all. Jeff

2001 Kawasaki Lakota Sport
Ford F-250 4x4 Diesel Truck
2 Brindle Boxers

"Getting Dirty"

"

vpihlman

10/12/03, 7:02 AM

Billygoat - I emailed Sandie but have not received a response as of yet.
Corljones - the ironwood area is actually under State Trust Land, since that is not public land they can do whatever they want. They will probably tell you the closure is due to EPA issues, and since we dont have the dust under control it will always be in EPA violation, so, it will only reopen if you buy or lease the land yourself and then water it down - like the track has to do. Good Luck though, let me know if you find a way to help the situation.
Does anyone know why they let hunters hunt in a set aside OHV area like Desert WElls? Seems dangerous.

CRAZY CRF 230 F- Vince
Not so Crazy CRF230F - Jeff
Baby Bike XR80 - Vicky

punker70

10/12/03, 8:59 PM

207 was pretty awesome, trails for miles, cool bowls/jumps, even found an mx track I managed to sprain my ankle on severely. I bent a tie rod and a clutch perch. I'll only be out for a week or so but I defenitely plan on returning there. I had a good time and rode with another RA guy. All around pretty good impression with the place and can't wait to go back. If your not crashing your'e not progressing.

03 Black/Red Raptor DMC Alien pipe, T2 bars, K&N filter......more to come

azjose

10/26/03, 5:48 PM

Hmm I was out at MM207 today. In my opinion it is pretty boring.

I didn't see any bowls, jumps or mx type stuff. I managed to find plenty of snady jeep road stuff. Would be nice if there was some nice singletrack out there, but even if there was it would all still be flat.

Might give MM207 one more try. But I think I would have had much more fun at ET or Speedworld.

AzJose (azjose@azdirtbike.com)
Chandler, AZ
'only hurts when I stop riding'

billygoat

10/26/03, 7:43 PM

VPihlman,

I read you comments on why ASLD would let hunters use an area like Desert Wells when it's "set aside". It's not actually set aside. ASLD marked the routes so that people would know which routes are open for travel. This area has no real "protection" like a designated OHV area. Also with Game and Fish being the enforcing agency, hunters are unlikely to be kicked out.

Furthermore, if new routes/MX sites are created ASLD could take action by closing the area to OHV and leave it open to hunting on foot and permittees(ranchers)! Hunting is more managed than OHV use. Game and Fish squashed the City of Scottsdale when they said there was no hunting in the Granite Mtn area. Game and Fish said that Scottsdale can enforce a "no shooting ordinance", but that the taking of game was a state jurisdiction, thus bow hunting was legal. No mention of OHV in that arguement. Food for thought.